What to do? 1970 911T not run since 1997

[hotdogwater]

I have a 1970 911 T. I got the car about 9 years ago and have been trying to restore it since. Things got in the way, took my time, moved twice and now I'm almost ready to try to start the engine after sitting since 1997-ish. I have now knowledge of why it was taken off the road or condition of engine when it was parked.

I have changed the oil in the engine years ago and have been turning it over by hand every now and then for a while. Check inside the cylinders with a cheap borescope camera and most are clean one or two have a little rust at the bottom of the cylinder at the piston. The engine turns easily. Replaced cap and rotor, plugs and wires.

Would you risk trying to start this engine as is?
Would you take it out of the car for a full overhaul?
Would you try to do the cam tensioners before trying to start? Can these be done with the engine in the car?
I understand this is an interference engine so if the chains slip from these old plastic tensioners then the engine is toast correct?
What else would you do before trying to start this car? Change the oil and go for it?

My delima...
I bought this car as an investment for my kids' college. She graduates high school in a couple months and I sorta made her a promise to drop her off at school one time before she graduates. Also need to maximize the profit potential and maybe get to drive her a bit before I have to sell to cover the cost of school. Still hoping for some serious scholarships (she got one for $16K but total bill is $120K).

I did get the interior done, have replaced the brake system and all sorts of other bits but I am not sure where to proceed with this engine. New fuel tank, pumped new fuel to some 2nd hand Webers I picked up recently.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

[TimT]

I'd fire try to fire it up and see how it runs.. But that's just me..

Run it for a bit and assess after shut down

[911 SLANT]

More pictures please

[PeteKz]

How many miles on the engine? Is it original?

As long as you can crank it though by hand, then I advise you to prep it to start. Not much point in doing a rebuild if it runs as-is, unless you're flush with cash--which your dilemma about paying for college indicates you're not. A full rebuild on a 2.2 will be in the range of $20K-30K.

Yes, you can install the oil-fed tensioners with the engine in the car. It's a PITA, but I've done it. The plastic chain guides are surprisingly durable, but not expensive, so you can replace them when you install the tensioners.

Clean out the gas tank if you haven't already. Remove the gas tank sender and look inside with a flashlight. How much rust or crud? Then get it up in the air and drain any old fuel from the bottom by removing the big-ass nut and strainer. Clean out anything you can. flush the fuel lines to be sure they are clear and get any crud out. Replace any that are hard or cracked. Report back here what you find.

If things are good up to this point, then remove the plugs, squirt a bit of oil in the spark plug holes, and crank it through with the starter a bunch of times until you get oil pressure on the gauge. Then reinstall the plugs and try to start it on starting spray. If it fires and dies, good. Then squirt a little fresh gas in the carb throats and try to start it again. It should fire for a second and then die.

Then prime the carbs, add fresh gas to the (clean) tank and fire it up! Chances are good that it will run rough and the carbs will need work too, but you might get lucky. It's always more motivating to work on a car that runs, than one that doesn't and just sits.

There are several other threads in the past year about this same situation, so check those too.

[gamin]

27 years sitting. Replace ALL rubber fuel lines. Make sure you have an inline fuel filter installed. My 70 came from the factory without one. I would have the tank professionally cleaned. I would also clean and rebuild the carbs. Not particularly difficult. The carbs are very sensitive to foreign matter contamination. i would do all this before engine start. I have unfortunate experience in not doing all of the above.

[yelcab1]

Pete's got some solid advice so I won't bother here. I will just say what a good dad you are. Secondly, you will not be able to fully rebuild this engine in 2 months time. Forget that option.

Do what Pete said, then get in, clean it, fire it, run it, adjust the carbs.

[fanaudical]

Don't forget about brakes! Replace the hoses, flush the fluid, and maybe you get lucky and calipers aren't seized. I would be sending calipers to PMB and replacing the master cylinder to be safe.

[hotdogwater]

Thanks so much for the feedback everyone. Have some more details/info.

- brakes -
I have replaced the brakes with PMB stuff a few years back, I just bled them again with fresh brake fluid and feel like the pedal is starting to feel ok/good-ish. Will check the system again, somehow the fluid in the reservoir leaked out a while back. Feed lines to the master cyl. look original/brittle. New fluid seems to be staying in/not leaking.

- fuel system -
I replaced the pump and all soft lines. The tank was gone so I replaced with a Dansk. Added an inline filter and gauge in the engine compartment. I just pulled the fuel lines at the carbs and ran some fresh gas thru the pump and flushed out the lines. Not much crud as I cleaned these out a few years ago.

- Engine -
I got these webers from a guy who ran them on a 2.4 so prob need some tuning but I hope they are close enough to get her started. He said they were in working condition when he pulled them a year ago. Still rebuild or give them a shot? I pulled the original Zenith carbs when I rebuilt them 2 times and still had leaking from the accelerator pumps. So I know if I pressurize them and the gas comes pouring out somewhere to stop and rebuild them.

I'm in CO at 5600 ft so need to find some smaller jets I'm guessing.

I added a squirt of marvel mystery oil to each cylinder when I checked them a few months ago and have turned the engine by hand a few times since then. Will pull plugs and run engine with some fresh oil on starter a bit to get pressure. I assume if no pressure I should stop here.

The engine is weeping oil over the years. I have pan under the car and it's got some oil all the time. I changed the oil years ago and will do it again now before attempting to start, but I guess I need to see where that is coming from and make sure it's not catastrophic.

Not sure if the CDI is working or not, I tried to start the car when I first got it many years ago but not sure I ever got spark and gave up. Any tests I can do to check CDI functionality? I remember something with a meter, will do some searching the forums, it's been a bit.


Thanks again. More photos soon.

[PeteKz]

You've done most of the prep already from what you describe. If you put Marvel in the cylinders already, you don't need to add more oil.

Just crank it until you get oil pressure on the gauge. If the gauge does not register pressure, don't worry, the gauge may not be sensitive enough at very low pressure. In that case, loosen about 1 turn on one of the oil lines at the fitting on the head and crank until oil comes out. Then you know you have pressure to the cams. Then tighten the fitting.

Proceed with the rest of the steps. If it does not fire on the starting fluid, stop, then check for spark. That may be the reason it's been sitting all these years.

Post your results back here.

[stownsen914]

You can do a few checks on the carbs before trying to start. Check the jets if you haven't already, they can get clogged. Quick and easy to do. Also, before trying to fire up the engine, run the fuel pump for maybe 10-20 seconds or so to prime fuel system and the carbs. Check for leaks, then test the acceleration pumps. Probably good enough at this point to just look fuel in each stack when exercising the throttle.
There are more detailed setup steps you can do later.

[HarryD]

This thread may be helpful in getting your engine back in service. Pay close attention to post 21 by Grady Clay.

Originally Posted by HarryD

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/183215-winter-storage-checklist.html

For your ignition, you need to verify the basics.

Open distributor and check your points to be sure they are opening and closing when you crank. Verify the rotor is intact and the cap is not covered in carbon or looks bad.

To get a spark to the spark plug in the engine, several things need to happen. First, you need power to the CDI. Next you need to have a way to trigger the CDI (the points do this by opening and closing). Then the CDI will then send a pulse to the coil which will increase the voltage and send it through the high tension lead to the rotor and to the selected spark plug. You need to verify that each step in this chain is working.

1) Verify that the CDI is getting power.

2) Verify that the CDI is producing power to make a spark. You can do this with a "telegraph" test. Take the high tension lead off of the center of the distributor and put a spark plug on it. Ground the threaded part. With your plug attached to the center lead, open the distributor, remove the rotor, place your key in the run position, and manually open and close the points. Each time you cycle, you should see a spark from the plug. If you do not, you may have a bad CDI Or Coil.

3) Verify that the coil gets a signal when you crank. Replace the rotor and distributor cap. Leave the plug on the center high tension lead. Crank the engine. Do you see a spark? If so, you are getting spark to the distributor. If not, your point gap may be off or there is some other problem with the connections.

4) Verify that the spark goes to the spark plug wires. Reattach the center lead to the distributor. Attach you spark plug to one of the leads going to the cylinder spark plugs and ground. Crank engine. If you see a spark you may have a timing problem. If no spark, you have a problem with your rotor or distributor cap or your wires are improperly seated.

Points do go bad from worn rubbing block or the surfaces go south. I had my 1970 Bus suddenly fail. On close examination, it turned out that the contact pads on the points fell off and no amount of adjusting would make it run.

[dannobee]

One thing often forgotten on Porsche's that have sat for too long is the transmission. Since paper gaskets were the norm, they can develop leaks and over the years all of the oil leaks out.

Make sure it's at least topped up before you start it, as the bearings can run dry on the first startup.

[PeteKz]

dannobee makes a good point about checking the transmission oil before driving it. DO that too.

[hotdogwater]

Today's update...

I tried to start it yesterday and got somewhere... She wanted to start, had some smoke and some burbles like it was going to go but noted the dizzy was loose and moved when I was cranking it. Tried moving distributor a bit and got more sounds like it was close but I stopped and started reading up on setting timing (and prob points and dwell too).

She sounds like she wants to start tho so maybe CD box is ok. I am going to set the timing today (close enough to start I hope) and check the points since this marelli stuff is hard to find.

I have some Kendall 80w-90 NS-MP Hypoid Gear oil I bought long ago still in the box, think it's ok to use? MFG was 2012.

I have the charger on the batt, think I may have at least one jet that stuck (no flow of gas on the butterflies in at least one venturi). But she wants to start.

Gonna do trans fluid today, set the timing and give it another go.

Older pic of when I stripped the interior. New shots of her in the sun soon as I can get it running.

[PeteKz]

You said "she sounds like she wants to start." What does that mean? Is it firing on some cylinders?

[RobFrost]

Check with somebody who knows better but don't assume the hypoid oil is okay. Modern hypoid can contain additives which damage the bronze synchromeshes in a 901 box.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

[RobFrost]

Originally Posted by hotdogwater

Today's update...



I tried to start it yesterday and got somewhere... She wanted to start, had some smoke and some burbles like it was going to go but noted the dizzy was loose and moved when I was cranking it. Tried moving distributor a bit and got more sounds like it was close but I stopped and started reading up on setting timing (and prob points and dwell too).



She sounds like she wants to start tho so maybe CD box is ok. I am going to set the timing today (close enough to start I hope) and check the points since this marelli stuff is hard to find.



I have some Kendall 80w-90 NS-MP Hypoid Gear oil I bought long ago still in the box, think it's ok to use? MFG was 2012.



I have the charger on the batt, think I may have at least one jet that stuck (no flow of gas on the butterflies in at least one venturi). But she wants to start.



Gonna do trans fluid today, set the timing and give it another go.



Older pic of when I stripped the interior. New shots of her in the sun soon as I can get it running.

Floor should be body colour for top money, with black sprayed over where it shows on the tunnel, and bottoms of the b pillars, etc. You can get pics of original paint.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by RobFrost

Check with somebody who knows better but don't assume the hypoid oil is okay. Modern hypoid can contain additives which damage the bronze synchromeshes in a 901 box.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

You want a DINO GL-5 Gear oil. Kendall 80w-90 NS-MP appears to be a Dino type.

FWIW, I have been using SWEPCO 201 for my 20+ yr ownership.

[stownsen914]

Check to see what’s in the oil to be safe. Some oils contain friction modifiers for LSDs that are too slippery for vintage Porsche synchros to do their thing. It wouldn’t damage the gearbox in the short term, but best to get the right stuff as mentioned above.

[PeteKz]

Nah, I'll advise not to worry about the gearbox oil. Yet. Just make sure you can get your finger wet by sticking it in the fill hole. Get the damn thing running first!

Then drive it a bit. Get the clutch working smoothly and cable adjusted correctly. Drive it a bit more. If the trans gives you a hard time going into gear or grinds when going into gear, then change the oil. But I'll bet that the stuff in it will work fine.

That's the "Roadkill Garage" approach.