Audette headlamp fitment difficulties

Otter74 · 05-12-2020, 03:05 PM

After spending quite a bit of time wrestling with this without success, I bring it here for suggestions. I just ordered a set of John Audette's LED headlamps, which look terrific. However, I'm having a bear of a time getting them mounted correctly. No matter what I do (so far), I just cannot get them mounted to the body any better than seen in the photo below. I wiggle them into the opening, hook the top edge of the trim ring over the lip in the body, and this is the best I can get. It is also a bear getting the screw started with the rubber spacer in there blocking my view, but this fitment is independent of what screw I use or how I use it. I can crank down on the screw and this is as far as the headlamp assembly goes. I can get the bottom fit to the body well, but then the top isn't even close. Suggestions? What I thought would be a one-hour job is driving me slightly batty. I know there are plenty of people happily using these, so there's got to be a solution.

Pigeye · Pigeye's Garage

Not exactly the same but I start the screw on my h4s and then push it over the lip.

Any idea where to get those rubber spacers though, I’m missing one

Otter74 · 05-12-2020, 05:29 PM

OK, I got back from a ride and decided to try fixing the mounting screw first and then pushing the top over. I eventually got it as seen in the photos below - looks good on top, bottom and outside, fair on the inside (lighting makes it hard to see but you can see the flange in the bowl at around 4:00-5:00) However, I can effortlessly pull the bowl off with my hand by pulling on the top. So while it looks fitted up there, it isn't.

RFP · RFP's Garage

Are you installing with new rubber seals, or are you using new seals? When I installed my H4s a couple of years ago, I learned that some seals are thicker than others. I had the same trouble you are having until I bought the thinner seals. I think I got them from Stoddard.

AG81 · AG81's Garage

^
I agree with RFP.... Stoddard seals saved me. One side was perfect other side was a PITA.

75 911s · 75 911s's Garage

I've brought up this issue before. I wonder if there was something slightly different with 74-75 buckets. I have the same issue on my 75. I've spent hours trying to get them to fit right. They fit without any seal at all. I even tried a VW headlight seal which works but wont keep water out of the bucket. There also seemed to be interference from the sugar scoop brackets on the inside, I think the inner lower brackets if I remember.

To see what I mean, remove the seal entirely and fit the light. It will probably fit really nicely. I haven't tried the stoddard seals, I think I just used the official Porsche seals bought here on pel

Otter74 · 05-13-2020, 04:28 AM

I'm using new rubber seals that John supplied with the lights. If anything, they appear thinner than the seals that were on the car.

Oh, and the car is an '80 SC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFP

Are you installing with new rubber seals, or are you using new seals? When I installed my H4s a couple of years ago, I learned that some seals are thicker than others. I had the same trouble you are having until I bought the thinner seals. I think I got them from Stoddard.

Shuie · 05-13-2020, 09:29 AM

I had the same thing on my '86. I had to remove one of the wire spring retainers that hooks under the lip on the trim ring from each light to get them to seat and get the screw in the bottom. It didn't make a difference with or without the seal. Nice lights, though. I like them a lot.

ksluna · 05-13-2020, 09:58 AM

Not exactly the news I want to read after putting an order for his headlights just a couple of hours ago this morning...

RFP · RFP's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksluna

Not exactly the news I want to read after putting an order for his headlights just a couple of hours ago this morning...

John's headlights are NOT the problem. Nine times out of tent it's either the seals or plain ol' pilot error. ;-)

RFP · RFP's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter74

I'm using new rubber seals that John supplied with the lights. If anything, they appear thinner than the seals that were on the car.

Oh, and the car is an '80 SC.

So, try this easy test: see if they will fit with NO seals. If they will install OK with no seals, but won't install with seals, then, bingo, the seals are what's causing you grief.

Otter74 · 05-13-2020, 11:20 AM

Shuie,

Thanks for that - I'll try that when I'm home this evening.

Given that my problem is generally that the trim ring won't fit up to the body, it seems unlikely to me that the gasket is contributing to the problem. But it's easy enough to test, so I'll try that, too.

I don't see this as being a problem with John's lights. Rather, it seems a problem of the design of the interface between the light or trim ring and the body, which is carried over from the OE design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuie

I had the same thing on my '86. I had to remove one of the wire spring retainers that hooks under the lip on the trim ring from each light to get them to seat and get the screw in the bottom. It didn't make a difference with or without the seal. Nice lights, though. I like them a lot.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

This (and the windshield seal design) are one of the things on the 911 that make me seriously question the quality of German engineering. It's a *terrible* design - as the fender "ages", the lip gets worn and causes problems. I've lost 2-3 H4 headlamps ($200 a pop) on the road and on the track (I still remember the sound that makes when it flies off - it's unmistakable). It got to the point where I installed them, and then went in there and attached an emergency zip tie as well to make sure that I wouldn't lose another one if it let go. I'd install it, and then try to wiggle it and it would be solid and strong - until driving around twists it around and/or vibrates it loose and then bye-bye once again!

So, my advice is to not trust it and attach a backup zip tie just to "catch" the lamp if it comes loose accidentally.

-Wayne

Otter74 · 05-13-2020, 01:30 PM

That's a good idea, Wayne - I'll be sure to do that. I arch my eyebrows a bit at the "it's German so it must be superior engineering" attitude (see e.g. the engine-rebuild-cost topic) - not everything on these cars is well-engineered. The sugar-scoop lights may not be very good even with H4s (and I never cared about how they looked until I bought may car - then I immediately hated it) but at least you know they light is staying on.

Otter74 · 05-13-2020, 09:50 PM

I have given up for now and put the sugar scoops back on. Old gasket, new gasket or no gasket; remove a spring clip (didn't work well since the lamp I was working with only had two) or leave them all in; I just couldn't get it on right.

dyerkes · dyerkes's Garage

I ended up getting a set of rubber seals for a 356 as they were just a bit thinner and that solved the issue for mine.

Regards,
David

Otter74 · 05-16-2020, 06:23 AM

The thickness of the seals doesn't seem to be my problem - I took the seal off and the headlight was no easier to install. If anything, I might like thicker ones. I did look at a car I saw the other day that had what appeared to be Rennline LED lamps and the seal looked thicker than the new one I have. Possibly thick enough that the best fit I achieved would be workable in that there wouldn't be an air gap into the bowl. I'm going to punt until my paint shows up.

darrin · 05-16-2020, 06:31 AM

otter74, almost sounds like there's interference behind the headlight in the headlight bucket -- a prior post mentioned how a sugar scoop tab (only used on US Spec cars) could interfere with the fittament of these european-derived headlight assemblies and your reference to needing thicker gaskets suggests that you're having problems getting these to fully insert into the headlight buckets.

Have you been working with John Audette directly on this issue? He seems to have a wealth of knowledge

Otter74 · 05-16-2020, 06:57 AM

darrin,

I considered that, and I've tried to look, though it's awfully hard to see anything with the headlight mostly in the bucket. but I don't think the lamp is hitting anything inside the bucket. I don't see any witness marks on the lamp, anyway and the mass of the lamp housing is largely inboard. I have written John directly, and he's been helpful. I wrote here because I thought the collective experience of the forum could offer some helpful information. It has, but they're not in yet! I do look forward to having them on the car and don't doubt that this is a solvable problem.

Marwil · Marwil's Garage

I’m having a similar issue. I tried installing them last year and ran into the very same issues. I wound up cracking a lens and gave up as I wanted drive rather fart around. I have new lenses that I have to install on the lights. My plan is to try fitting just the rings, if there are still issues it may be that the ring needs persuading a bit. If the rings fit then the issue is elsewhere. I might look at putting tape in the tabs, checking for marks the trim the tab as needed. I’m thinking is a question of a few mm.

Lastly - what is the order/assembly procedure for the bottom ferrule-on-screw-with-rubber-stand-off thing?