Starting issue for 911 which start for long time

[khan654]

Hi,
I am new to air cooled 911s and recently acquired an 911 T with MFI.
Following is what I have done so far
1. Replaced the oil (added new)
2. Replaced the oil filter
3. Replaced fuel filter
4. New sending unit
5. All new spark plugs
6. New Battery
7. Removed old gas (not all, because the fuel lines underneath were pretty tight) Siphoned as much as I can
8. Added new gas

When I cranked it, the motor turns but does not start. Sprayed some starting fluid in the butterfly valves as well.. did not want to spray anymore. I am sure it may start if I keep on spraying some fluid.
I wanted to change the fuel pump.... When I turn the key on, I hear continues beep sound from fuel pump (is it good or bad)

This car has an MFI, heard it is bit complicated to work on or I don't know what the issue might be?
Can I add a like an tiny bit of gas on the butterfly valves instead of ether and try?

Any help is appreciated.

[PeteKz]

Did you acquire it not running? Or did it stop running after you got it?

Basics first: Compression, fuel, spark.

If it does not at least fire for a second on starting spray, I doubt it will fire on gasoline dripped in the throttle bodies. Try more starting spray first. If it does not fire, then check for spark. Pull out a plug and ground it to the engine. Is it wet? Then have someone crank the engine while you look for spark at the plug gap.

Report your results back here.

[khan654]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Did you acquire it not running? Or did it stop running after you got it?

Basics first: Compression, fuel, spark.

If it does not at least fire for a second on starting spray, I doubt it will fire on gasoline dripped in the throttle bodies. Try more starting spray first. If it does not fire, then check for spark. Pull out a plug and ground it to the engine. Is it wet? Then have someone crank the engine while you look for spark at the plug gap.

Report your results back here.

Yes It has been sitting for a long time, maybe 5 to 10 years. When I put starter fluid in it, it felt like it will start, the blades were running, quite some smoke (not a lot).

I will check the spark tomorrow.. however, when I turn the key on, the fuel pump has a continues sound. Can this be cus it is not getting any fuel? I wanted to remove the tank and clear any debris but the previous owner had the lines so tight spaced to each other plus I won't be able to remove lines coming from tank because of less space. I might have to remove the steering rod (I dont know what that is called). I want to remove tank screen and put a new one but again little to no space to do that unless I remove the tank itself.

Do you think even after putting in new spark plugs, there is a possibility of no spark?

Also it has electric fuel pump. Can you recommend what brand fuel pump shall I get if I want to. Like any specific for GPH or higher PSI etc?

Thanks.

[khan654]

BTW, my car is an 1970 911 T 2.2L
I believe it has larger bore or some different cams. I wish it was simple but the previous owner I believe thought to never have it serviced again in his life time.
The fuel filter and oil filter were stuck like a gum in someones hair. Such a pain to remove both.. working on this for past 3 days and still finding a way to flush that old gas which smells like paint thinner. Siphoned as much as I can...
I would love to have someone guide me thru this process before I give up and send it to a mechanic shop where they will cost me an arm and a leg to fix it.
Please let me know if someone wants to help me out and I can leave my phone number or email.
Thanks.

[boyt911sc]

Where are you located?

Tony

[PeteKz]

Yes, you need to clean out the old fuel first. If you remove the fuel line to the MFI, then let the pump run until it pumps out the tank, that will get almost all the old fuel out. Then add new fuel to the tank. Then run the pump again until you get fresh fuel out of the fuel line.

I do not understand some of your descriptions, such as, "it felt like it will start," and then you described smoke. If you were getting smoke out the exhaust, then at least some of the spark plugs were firing and igniting the old fuel. It may take a few minutes of cranking and poor running to get the new fuel into the MFI system. You also said, "the blades were running." The fan will turn whenever you crank the engine, because the fan belt connects the fan pulley to the crank pulley. If the fan was not turning, that would be a problem.

I suspect the plugs also need to be removed and cleaned. Do that when you check for spark.

Fuel pump noise: The fuel pump will make a mild whirring sound when it is running. You probably will not hear it from inside the car. Another noise that you may mistake for the pump is the sound of the CDI box charging. It makes a high-pitch buzz or squeak. Put your ear near the CDI box to hear it.

As Tony asked, please add your location and car description to your profile.

[khan654]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Where are you located?

Tony

Buffalo, NY

[Mark Salvetti]

Wait a minute, if this is a 1970 911T, shouldn't it have Zenith carburetors? I suppose it's possible someone dropped in an MFI engine, or maybe converted to MFI if they increased displacement or cams, but what are the odds of that?

The 911T didn't have MFI until 1972 and the first half of 1973.

khan, if you look down on the engine to the right of the fan, you should see an engine type stamped in the case. A 1970 911T should be 911/07.

I think we should make sure you still have a 2.2L T engine in the car.

Mark

[pmax]

"When I turn the key on, I hear continues beep sound from fuel pump (is it good or bad)"


Fuel pumps don't beep.
I don't know what does in these old cars.

[PeteKz]

Cdi.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Cdi.

Ah, yes, I missed that part of the description. So it isn't a beep but a whine of some sort.

In that case, the "continues beep" could be the fuel pump whining if from the front.

CDI from the back.

[khan654]

It was coming from the front.
I was finally able to remove the gas tank, had a lot of rust. The fuel screen was gone and blocked completely.
So the pump was trying to push gas but was blocked, hence I guess the continued clicking sound.
I tried same external pump with a spare battery in the back. The line was going to MFI? The gas was flowing ok, with some bubbles it it.. not a continuous flow.
Today I ordered gas tank, decided to rather change it thank have this rust issue again in 5 years.
Here are some pictures of my engine, please let me know if this is an MFI or factory carbs?

Thanks.

[khan654]

Thanks for confirming that it’s a MFI.
The system seems to work when we added some gas after opening butterfly valves. Loud fire popped from the exhaust but all seems ok.
Hopefully after I get new gas tank, the fuel will get back to MFI.
Meanwhile my plan is to use an external plastic gas filler tank, insert two fuel hoses and connect to the pump. One for flow other for return and check if I get any pressure or fuel in the back to that fuel filter console. I just pray that tunnel fuel lines are open and not clogged. That would be a professional job or an extremely painful one for me to replace tunnel lines.

Any comments or suggestions if above plan is ok or a I being a nut case?

Thanks.

[khan654]

I was told though the engine is still 2.2L some modifications were done like larger bores and some cams.. I don’t know
It has an MSD ignition system. Not sure if it is same as CDI?

[PeteKz]

It looks like the old Bosch CDI box is still bolted to the relay panel, but disconnected. It does have an MSD system installed. The MSD CDI is on the right side, near the oil filter, and there is some MSD component under the original Bosch CDI box. It also has an MSD coil

What is your engine number?

[khan654]

I don’t know I have to check. Will let you know soon.. what does engine number has to do with MSD or CDI system?

[PeteKz]

It doesn't. But it will give an indication of whether it's the original engine and had MFI put on it, or a whole later MFI engine was installed.

[khan654]

Got it.
Tomorrow I’ll get under the car and check the engine number.
The fan housing number is 9101061015R.
As far as I know I was told the car has original 2.2 engine but some modifications. So probably MFI was a later modification.
But since you know more than me, I’ll update here.
Thanks.

[PeteKz]

The engine number is on top of the engine, near the oil sender, below the fan duct.

[khan654]

The number on the engine is 6102751
Def seems like engine was modified and MFI was installed later?