Green gear oil

[otto_kretschmer]

I drained my 76 911 gearbox today and found the oil to be green. The car has been on jackstands for at least a decade and the oil is about 20 years old. I remember using Swepco the last time I changed it. I don't remember which Swepco but the most common one that everyone uses so 201.

Its the same color as Simple Green.

Has anyone ran into this and do I have a problem?



I'm going to fill the tranny before I stop today and I'll use some GL5 I already have on hand, Valvoline 75w-90.

[1973914]

Perhaps the copper in some if the components make that happen I wonder?

[john walker's workshop]

VooDoo. Use Kendall 80/90 GL-5 instead unless it's a track car.

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by 1973914

Perhaps the copper in some if the components make that happen I wonder?

yea.. I don't know but I was thinking the same thing. I found this thread from 2017

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/957404-best-oil-915-gearbox.html

Bob Kontak says 210 is green so maybe thats what I put in 20 years ago and its still the same color.

Its bee so long since I drove this car that I've forgotten what its like. So I'm finally getting it back together but its going slow. I still have a lot of things to service. I don't think the rear wheel bearings have ever been regreased. I did the fronts and they are a piece of cake.

[Balisong]

I have a 76 with 14k miles on it.
It had a reseal for the 915 about 3 years ago.
It had Swepco 210 in it at that time.
I put Swepco 201 in it recently.
Happier with the 201…way fewer issues grinding first.

[fanaudical]

Rear wheel bearings are sealed units. Sure, you can pop the seal and inject some grease with a needle, but I'm not sure I've ever heard of that as standard maintenance...

[AlBackus36]

Swepco 201 is green, OP. Nothing to be concerned about. I used the same fluid in my box.

[pmax]

After 20 yrs, does it stink still ?

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by AlBackus36

Swepco 201 is green, OP. Nothing to be concerned about. I used the same fluid in my box.

My 201 is Smurf blue.

[Bob Kontak]

I think what I typed in the linked 2017 thread was incorrect.

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

I used 201 for years until it needed rebuilt. It's red.

210 is green and stinks.

How is that for adding value.

If Matt says 201 is ok, use that and consider the 210 or the Kendall next go around. Make sure you read up on which Kendall to use. They may treat synchros a bit better than the 201 but I cannot speak from experience, just what I read here.

I bought 210 in Houston in 1996 and put it in. It was not green, it was red. When Mayo performance rebuilt the trans in 2008 they put 201 in it saying the 210 was not the optimal. Synchro protection of 201 is better than 210.

I have the original invoice in a binder from 1996. If it's critical I can find it but I am very certain they stuff I ran was red from 96 - 2007. My mistake - not 201.

[brighton911]

Swepco 201 is blue, well the jug I bought is.

[otto_kretschmer]

Maybe I should put Royal Purple in and have all the colors covered?

[winders]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

I think what I typed in the linked 2017 thread was incorrect.



I bought 210 in Houston in 1996 and put it in. It was not green, it was red. When Mayo performance rebuilt the trans in 2008 they put 201 in it saying the 210 was not the optimal. Synchro protection of 201 is better than 210.

I have the original invoice in a binder from 1996. If it's critical I can find it but I am very certain they stuff I ran was red from 96 - 2007. My mistake - not 201.

With regards to my race car, Swepco 210 is the best stuff for the gears and R&P. I don't know if 201 is better for synchros but synchros are wear items so I don't really care. All I can say is synchro life did not change when I switched from 201 to 210...but gears lasted longer!

Avoid 203 and 212 if you have a clutch-based LSD. 210 is red....

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by pmax

After 20 yrs, does it stink still ?

It smells the same. It still has that nasty feel on my fingers. The oil I dumped is probably still good but I changed it anyway. I only had a couple oil changes on the car before it became a garage queen.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

It smells the same. It still has that nasty feel on my fingers. The oil I dumped is probably still good but I changed it anyway. I only had a couple oil changes on the car before it became a garage queen.

Probably.

Blue or green or bluish green, definitely an "unnatural" color for oil, some funky copper based additives perhaps, which might degrade oxidize turning greener over time.

I still have an unopened gallon of this stuff sitting in the garage waiting to be put to use. Wonder what the shelf life is.

[HarryD]

Per the SWEPCO Web Site (https://www.swepcolube.com/resources/gear-lubricants/), looking at the SDS sheets:
201 Blue
202 Black Viscous
210 Red
212 Thick Black

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Per the SWEPCO Web Site (https://www.swepcolube.com/resources/gear-lubricants/), looking at the SDS sheets:
201 Green
202 Black Viscous
210 Red
212 Thick Black

There is an error on their website. On the 210 oil they have the link to the 202.

And from what I can tell,

201 is blue
202 is blackish green
210 is red (oily red)
212 is thick black

thanks guys,

I was worried that my synchros have been leached or compromised. I bought the car 21 odd years ago and I did the normal things when buying a used car, change all fluids. I didn't remember the color but I do remember it wasn't the normal amber. I bought a 86 944 from a fellow engineer who worked at K&N and that trans had smurf blue oil. I enjoyed that car immensely and should have held onto it.

So I'm convinced the oil is Swepco 202. The oil still looks good. There is no sign of moisture, or that metallic sheen we often see on old oil that has had hard use. It doesn't smell burnt. I could put it back in and not worry about it. The car has been stored in a garage for as long as I've had it, here in Tucson and Riverside County California. Both desert environments.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

There is an error on their website. On the 210 oil they have the link to the 202.

And from what I can tell,

201 is blue
202 is blackish green
210 is red (oily red)
212 is thick black

thanks guys,

I was worried that my synchros have been leached or compromised. I bought the car 21 odd years ago and I did the normal things when buying a used car, change all fluids. I didn't remember the color but I do remember it wasn't the normal amber. I bought a 86 944 from a fellow engineer who worked at K&N and that trans had smurf blue oil. I enjoyed that car immensely and should have held onto it.

So I'm convinced the oil is Swepco 202. The oil still looks good. There is no sign of moisture, or that metallic sheen we often see on old oil that has had hard use. It doesn't smell burnt. I could put it back in and not worry about it. The car has been stored in a garage for as long as I've had it, here in Tucson and Riverside County California. Both desert environments.

My error. It did say blue. Sorry for confusion.

[Schulisco]

Addendum:
Modern gear oils also have different colors. I used to have a gear oil change by a workshop on the 915 of my SC with no success. Their intention was good, but the outcome wasn't: They filled a modern gear gear oil (unknown brand and spec) and the shifting comfort wasn't improved and even worse when warmed up. This modern oil was also green!

And so I replaced it by myself afterwards with a old fashioned SAE 90 GL5 mineral oil (Castrol EPX90), with specs pretty similar to the Shell Spirax MB90 which Porsche used for factory fill. Massively improved shifting comfort when warm, way more precise, I found the gears on the first try again, cold are these oils a bit harsh to shift, warm pretty smooth. I cannot emphasize enough to use these oldfashioned oils instead of modern fancy high tech gear box oils. The 915 was designed in the late 50ies/ early 60ies and to be used with oils available at that time. The patended Porsche ring synchronization requires a bit drag torque to make the servo effect work.

https://press.porsche.com/prod/presse_pag/PressResources.nsf/Content?ReadForm&languageversionid=60323&archive=10

Porsche ring synchronisation

At the Paris Salon of 1952 the Porsche 356 was launched with the new servo unit synchromesh gearbox with ring synchronisation. Development work had started as far back as 1947. More than 200 patents served to safeguard the individual development steps. The most important licensees built more than 1 million gearboxes with this synchronisation.

The synchronisation device with servo effect in line with the Porsche system was based on an idea of Leopold Schmid (1912-1988) and compared with existing synchronisation systems it had the major advantage in that it enabled shorter shifting times and reduced shifting forces on account of the significantly increased servo effect. The characteristic feature associated with the Porsche synchronisation is a slotted, preloaded chromium molybdenum steel ring, which can alter its outer diameter. The expansion of the synchroniser ring led to an increase in the synchroniser ring's pressure force, comparable with the self-energisation of an overrun shoe-type brake. The ring's preloading means that even a marked deterioration will not compromise synchronisation.

Last, but not least the low space requirement is an advantage that should not be underestimated. Even sporting short shifting times could not overload the Porsche synchronisation device.

Built: as of 1952

https://hako-lehrmittel.de/de/produktkatalog/synchronisation-porsche-laengsschnitt/

Thomas

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by winders

With regards to my race car, Swepco 210 is the best stuff for the gears and R&P. I don't know if 201 is better for synchros but synchros are wear items so I don't really care. All I can say is synchro life did not change when I switched from 201 to 210...but gears lasted longer!

Avoid 203 and 212 if you have a clutch-based LSD. 210 is red....

I'm glad you said that because that's what the fellow from Mayo said about gears/racing. 210 is best. In the context of "What you had in there is more for racing."