77 911S w 207k miles: Suspension Rebuild

[AFB24911S]

Hello Friends,

After extensive forum reading and Elephant Racing website research, I'm feeling just about ready to refurbish the suspension on my 1977 911S Targa. But, always good to consult experts when possible.

It has 207k miles of LA and Long Beach driving (think: potholes) on the clock and, according to the extremely extensive service history, has never had any suspension work. At all. The rear wheels are at 1.5 degrees of camber (ride height is pretty low, I think the torsion bars and shocks are giving up), and the front camber isn't much better; it also rides pretty hard.

So, I'm DIY'ing the redux with the parts list below:

Front:
Stock ball joints & hardware
Poly-Bronze control arm bearings
Camber plate bushings
Swaybar bushings
Turbo tie rods
Torsion bars (20mm)
Bump steer kit
New HD shocks

Rear:
Poly-bronze bearings
New HD shocks
new rear swaybar (18mm)
Torsion bars (26mm)
Rubber trailing arm bushings
Spring plate hardware
Swaybar bushings

I'm also getting Elephant Racing's split bushing removal tool and their trailing arm bushing installation tool.

Here are my big questions: are the spring plates a wear item that would need to be replaced, and how seriously should I consider doing a reinforcement plate on the rear torsion bar mounts? More info: the doors close normally no matter how I lift the car and it's a Targa, which leads me to think the body isn't beat to death.

Am I missing a "gotcha" part I'll need? Is there anything you did that made a big difference on your car I haven't listed? The plan is to keep this vehicle pretty close to stock: ideally after I finish this project, fix oil leaks, repaint it, and replace all the window trim the car will become my daily driver by next summer.

[Solamar]

I'm well on my way with the same project, 78 SC Targa. Gathering parts and researching. I plan to start installing parts mid-October.

How low is your car? Mines 25.5" front 25.0 rear at fender lip (yea, I know that's not the 'correct' way to measure). If your much lower you may want to look into having your front spindle raised on the strut.

I decided on 20f/27r torsion bars with the logic that I want less understeer than stock and I may add an adjustable front through the body sway bar to adjust under/over steer.

I also picked up a used set of Bilstein HD strut inserts and shocks that I plan to send to Elephant to have valved specifically for my weight and spring size. Sort-of expensive ($750) bit I 'think' this is the secret sauce to make the suspension work well together. Other opinions are that Bilstein HD's are already valved pretty good for this setup

The rear spring plates are not a wear item, I just re-plated mine. Reinforcing the rear tbar mount? Probably overkill for a lightly sprung street car, my opinion...

I'll mark-up your list below with my specs -

Originally Posted by AFB24911S

Hello Friends,

After extensive forum reading and Elephant Racing website research, I'm feeling just about ready to refurbish the suspension on my 1977 911S Targa. But, always good to consult experts when possible.

It has 207k miles of LA and Long Beach driving (think: potholes) on the clock and, according to the extremely extensive service history, has never had any suspension work. At all. The rear wheels are at 1.5 degrees of camber (ride height is pretty low, I think the torsion bars and shocks are giving up), and the front camber isn't much better; it also rides pretty hard.

So, I'm DIY'ing the redux with the parts list below:

Front:
Stock ball joints & hardware - Same
Poly-Bronze control arm bearings - Same
Camber plate bushings - I have some Elephant Quick Change camber plates that I'll try, if harsh, back to stock rubber
Swaybar bushings - Same
Turbo tie rods - I have new OE tie rods installed for now
Torsion bars (20mm) - Same
Bump steer kit - Don't think it's needed at my height
New HD shocks - Rebuilt/re-valved HD shocks

Rear:
Poly-bronze bearings - Elephant Rubber, already installed
New HD shocks - Rebuilt/re-valved HD shocks
new rear swaybar (18mm) - Stock rear sway, 16mm I think?
Torsion bars (26mm) - 27mm
Rubber trailing arm bushings - Same
Spring plate hardware
Swaybar bushings - Same

I'm also getting Elephant Racing's split bushing removal tool and their trailing arm bushing installation tool.

Here are my big questions: are the spring plates a wear item that would need to be replaced, and how seriously should I consider doing a reinforcement plate on the rear torsion bar mounts? More info: the doors close normally no matter how I lift the car and it's a Targa, which leads me to think the body isn't beat to death.

Am I missing a "gotcha" part I'll need? Is there anything you did that made a big difference on your car I haven't listed? The plan is to keep this vehicle pretty close to stock: ideally after I finish this project, fix oil leaks, repaint it, and replace all the window trim the car will become my daily driver by next summer.

[The Watson]

When I first saw the Elephant Racing split-bushing removal tool I felt it probably wasn't worth the $. But, for me, removing those with conventional methods was the worst part of the rear rebuild, along with the potential to mess up your aluminum arms if getting too aggressive. I don't know how well the tool works, but I surely would give it a shot if I ever did this again.

[chrismorse]

My 74 is mostly street, so I opted for sport rubber hardness strut top, spring plate and trailing arm bushings, (sport hardness a arm bushings not available when I started project). 21 and 27 t bars, Carrera option, 20 & 18 sways, HD Bilstein front and yellow, (rally’s rear - for some reason, the trailing arm lower shock mount wanted a larger diameter bolt and all that fit was the “rally”). I went with the quick change spring plates to facilitate ride height adjustments/cornerweighting.

As long as you are in there, you might want to consider new wheel bearings, steering rack overhaul, updating rear antiroll bar to later bolt through drop link style, (85, iirc), so you can adjust out any preload.

Good luck,
Chris

[AFB24911S]

Thanks for all the input! Measured my fenders, front and rear are both at 25". Good thing I don't have to worry about those spindles then! I'll look into the re-valving, I wonder if I can simply have my now very used struts refurbished and paired for reinstall.

If my bushings are really hard to remove, I'll just get the tool; ideally, I can find a used market for them here since I won't be rebuilding suspension again any time soon.

How comfortable were your 21 and 27 mm torsion bars? Good call, I'll look at the steering rack and see if I can manage an updated rear antiroll bar-good thing I already did the wheel bearings last year. My stock antiroll bar mounts are a little worse for the wear, suggesting the original bar was bashed up into the system, so maybe the updated adjustable drop link style is a good idea anyway if it has higher clearance.

[chrismorse]

Originally Posted by AFB24911S

Thanks for all the input! Measured my fenders, front and rear are both at 25". Good thing I don't have to worry about those spindles then! I'll look into the re-valving, I wonder if I can simply have my now very used struts refurbished and paired for reinstall.

If my bushings are really hard to remove, I'll just get the tool; ideally, I can find a used market for them here since I won't be rebuilding suspension again any time soon.

How comfortable were your 21 and 27 mm torsion bars? Good call, I'll look at the steering rack and see if I can manage an updated rear antiroll bar-good thing I already did the wheel bearings last year. My stock antiroll bar mounts are a little worse for the wear, suggesting the original bar was bashed up into the system, so maybe the updated adjustable drop link style is a good idea anyway if it has higher clearance.

My car is still up on the lift, so I can’t comment on the ride. The slippery slope is a bit bumpy though, now doing the EFI/ITB, trans overhaul/upgrade, fuel tank,lines ........
My fender heights were close to 25 & 25.5, but I am running short tires, if you’re running taller than stock tires, you might have reduced suspension travel, so have a chat with Chuck about the spindles.
The tools are a big help.
Chris

[AFB24911S]

The project creep is a tough one to fight! I am running the closest to stock tires I could find, so I'm probably OK.

Elephant Racing also lists the "Safari" suspension package, right on the same page with the more normal restoration package. Tempting, tempting. Never seen a Safari Targa.

[AFB24911S]

Alright, home build update time! Parts arrived about a month ago but I couldn't stand to put the car up on jack stands until it got to snow season here in Colorado.

It's been up on the jack stands for about 3 weeks now, and I've got the right rear suspension almost totally disassembled. The strut is out, the brake caliper is off (the lower caliper bolt is a PAIN, needed to hammer it loose with the box end on the bolt and then took it off about 1/16 turn at a time), the spring plate is detached from the trailing arm, the torsion bar is out, and I've taken the bushings off the spring plate. Only disassembly left is to remove the small end of the trailing arm and replace the bushing there. Going to wait on that until everything else is back in place so I don't have to hold the trailing arm in place; I can't figure out how to remove the brake lines from it easily, and if I don't have to mess with them I don't want to.

Removing Spring Plate Bushings:
I used Elephant Racing's bushing separation tool, the video they provide helps a whole lot. Here's what it doesn't say: 5 minutes of heating is the MINIMUM, just heat until the whole thing is smoking like a grill on the Fourth of July. Also, if you don't have a shop press get a really good bar clamp and have two pieces of wood or steel nearby to press the thing together. You'll have to remove the torsion bar cover to help the wood/steel sit flat on the top of the cylinder, so tap it out from the inside with a screw driver and a hammer. Do not wait, as I did, until the metal is flaming hot to realize this. It cools quickly, so have your clamp, your wood, your knife, and your separation tool nearby. And don't skimp on your clamp, if you don't own one; I got a $40 one from Home Depot that looked pretty strong, but I bent the bar when I was clamping. It took me about 3 hours to take the rubber off, remove the remains, and polish the surfaces smooth, but it'll probably take an hour less on the other side because I've got a system for the clamping & heating now.

Spring Plate/Trailing Arm Separation
This was tricky. Not only are the bolts really torqued down, which is always fun when the car's on jack stands, but it's hard to figure out where to lever the trailing arm to relieve the tension. When I took my bolts out, one left some little indents a the hole in the trailing arm. So, learn from my mistake: with the bolts in and the damper off, let it hang. Then, use the jack under the trailing arm to push up the assembly juuuuust a little. Maybe, if possible, even try to lift the spring plate as opposed to lifting the trailing arm. I'll try that on the next side and post if it works or not.

Spring Plate & Torsion Bar Removal:
This is the fun part. to remove the spring plate, I had my Dad put a hammer against the body with the claw pulling outward, like you would remove a nail, and I banged on the interior side of the spring plate while he was twisting the hammer to push it outward. Marked up the interior side of the spring plate pretty well, but it's steel and it faces the car. The spring plate came off the torsion bar, so I didn't have to separate those two.

The torsion bar could have been really difficult if I didn't have a big wood handscrew clamp. I pinched the part of the torsion bar behind the splines with the front, leaned the tip against the body, and tapped the back end of the clamp from the other side with a hammer; came right out. Don't know how I would have removed it if I didn't have a wooden hand screw clamp.

Other Notes:
Good idea to have a rubber cap or something to put over the brake nipple while you work. Also helps to have a nice tray to keep all brake fluid off the floor. The cars made after '77 with the two height adjustment bolts really require that thin 24/36mm wrench Pelican offers, there's just no clearance between the spring plate and the body to make the adjustment any other way. Get a 17mm wrench with a ratcheting box end for the struts on the top, it's really tight in the engine compartment and the ratcheting box end makes it a lot easier.

If you're thinking about replacing just enough parts to really make a difference in the ride quality/performance and everything's worn about the same, the struts are probably your best bet to make the most improvement for the least work/cost. Mine were TOTALLY shot, the bump stop on the right rear were in pieces and I could force the rod down with one hand.

Also: in other threads, I've read that the rubber spring plate bushings contribute a fair bit of resistance to the rotation of the assembly. Based on what I've read in other posts here, what I've observed in my car and on my understanding of the engineering at work (mech e., Santa Clara University) that is a fair assessment of the system. My Elephant Racing poly-bronze bushings will remove resistance to twisting in the system, but the increased torsion bar size will more than compensate for that loss in resistance to rotation I think. We'll see.

Thinking about doing a video when I do the other side, once I know just enough about what the heck I'm doing to speak with a little authority on it. If I do, I'll post it here.

[AFB24911S]

MORE PROGRESS! Hope you're going well, Solamar. Here are some more notes:

Elephant Racing Poly Bronze Bushing Install

These bushings are so neat. They're a lot of work though. The first thing I almost messed up was putting the silver parts onto the spring plate. After giving those a thorough scrub with wire brushes and smoothing them with sandpaper to remove all the leftover rubber, I decided I wanted to paint the spring plate to prevent future corrosion. The Elephant Racing instructions suggest plating, but I thought that might be overkill and that it might impact my splines and the OD of the cylindrical part. My spring plates are the two-piece type, with an adjustment for height, so I had to take it apart to paint the whole piece properly. Those two nuts holding them together are TIGHT, clamp the heck out of the plate and just go to town with the breaker bars.

I masked off the surfaces where the silver, inner parts of the bushings would go and painted each piece. Then, I mixed up my JB weld and applied a thin film to the spring plate and slid the silver part on. Done? I thought so, but I pulled the silver piece off just to make sure. Glad I did, because the interior only had a little JB weld on it. So, I slathered the spring plates with JB weld and pushed the silver pieces on until some squeezed out of the top and bottom, cleaned the parts that shouldn't get JB weld, and reinstalled and repeated until the plate part came away clean and the cylinder part stayed coated. Decided to let it all cure with a little weight on each silver piece pressing them towards the plate part just to be sure.

The most time-intensive part was shaving down the metal on the car surrounding the bushing; there was a lot of excess slag there, and it took me about 2 hours with a Dremel to get the surface perfectly flat. I used one of the polybronze bushings to check flatness as I worked.

When I went to install the bushings, I expected a hard fight to push them into the car and into the spring plate cover, but they slid right in. Not good. The Elephant Racing instructions said to put "Loctite PL-S30" adhesive caulk in the void, so I globbed as much in as I could and cleaned the bearing surfaces afterwards. To adhere them in the correct orientation, I applied the caulking to both at the same time and installed the spring plate between the bushings without any spacers. I eyeballed the alignment at each of the four bolts to get it straight enough, and tightened.

After waiting 24 hours for a good, full cure I disassembled everything and put spacers back in to meet the 1.5mm +/- .75. DONE! Lots more work than rubber bushings, but hopefully the work will pay off in handling and ride quality.

Trailing Arm Bushings

Get. A. Helper. Even if you're taking the arm out of the car, it really helps to have someone help lift it off your chest and brace it when you're working on it. It's a big, heavy piece of aluminum with delicate things like bearings and spindles that you don't want to ding.

I decided to use both of Elephant Racing's tools for this job, and I just don't see how it could be done without them if you want to leave the arm in the car. They ruled. I had my axle out to replace the CV joints anyway, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't have swung the arm far enough toward the rear of the car with them on so I advise removing them even if they don't need service.

First, I removed all four of the bolts holding the trailing arm to the spring plate. Once I knuckle-busted the nut and bolt toward the transmission that holds the bushings and the arm in place (3/4" wrench on the nut, 7/8" wrench on the bolt head in my car), I swung it out and down under the transmission subframe mount thing. D'OH! That's heavy! To avoid over-straining the brake lines I left in place, I hip-thrusted the trailing arm to hold it up while on my back and pulled a nut and bolt to myself with a leg. Then, hips supporting the trailing arm, I got the bolt through the trailing arm and the spring plate to hold it in place. Tightened the nut down, and it was in place. PHEW! No damage to brake lines. I suspect a similar procedure could not be performed supporting the trailing arm with the shock absorber, it doesn't look like there's enough room to swing the arm back far enough, but I'm open to being proven wrong.

The old bushings came out easily enough. I heated them for about 3 minutes, and stopped because they started smoking. Then, I wrenched them out with a flat head screw driver and used the removal tool to take the cups out. It worked like a charm, EXACTLY like the Elephant Racing video shows. (There has been much discussion about whether replacing these bushings is a worthwhile service; the rubber in mine was cracking and had flowed significantly, but I don't know how drastically they impact performance. It stands to reason that the rubber would fail entirely and cause metal-on-metal contact, but who knows how long that would take.)

But here's where it got challenging. After I used the installation tool to put the new bushings on, they were too wide to fit in the opening. I thought I must not have installed them fully, so I used the tool again and held the trigger down on my 18V impact wrench until the driver stopped rotating on each side. Again, no joy on attempted fitment. I measured: my opening was 55 mm wide, and my bushings were 57.5 mm wide. Thinking I still hadn't tightened enough and that my impact wrench was not enough, I got out my breaker bars and went to town with the installation tool. I got the bushings to 57.1 mm wide by hand. So, I used my hydraulic floor jack to put more force on my breaker bars than I could by hand. Doing that pressed the inner metal part out of the outer metal. OOPS. Put the tool on the other side and repeated the process with the floor jack, same result, but at least now I figured I had gotten them as far in as they'd go. Again, 57.1 mm. So, I removed the big cylindrical parts from the installation tool, put the nuts and the washers back on, and squeezed the bushings just enough to make them 54.9 mm thick. That'll fit! I had to adjust the tool so that the nut facing the transmission was even with the all-thread to swing the arm around the frame and into place, but it fit right in. I took the nuts and washers off by hand, removed the all-thread, and pushed the bushings and arm into place. DONE!

After my boneheaded move with the hip thrust to hold the trailing arm up, I got a second pair of hands to help put a bolt in and tighten a nut down on all the future attempts. Definitely get a helper, invaluable.

Now all that's left for me is to get my new CV joints, put the axle back together and in, put in the new strut, torque everything, and then it'll just be the brakes left to bleed. I've been cleaning everything to death as I go while waiting for rust remover or paint to dry, but I think I have about 20 or 30 hours into this corner so far. I bet I can do the opposite side in 15.

Here's where I reveal myself as a millennial: if you want to follow along, I'm saving videos of the work on Instagram. I'm @BWW428CobraJet there. If I'm feeling up to it on the other side, I'll film and edit the process on the other side (editing would be the hard part, don't even know what software I'd use).

[AFB24911S]

Ugh, bone-headed mistake discovered today and short update. Axle 1 is rebuilt, and while re-reading through my Haynes manual I realized I didn't check which torsion bar I was putting in on the right side. Of course, it was the one for the left side. D'oh! Once my new nuts and bolts for the trailing arm come, I'll be pulling that assembly apart again and re-indexing. Only make every mistake once...

[Pedro '84 Coupe]

Good thing you checked! At least it'll be easier to take apart and put back together this time. Thanks for the notes btw. I'm about to replace the spring plate bushings soon

[AFB24911S]

Here's a photo of the setup I used to remove my old torsion bars once I had the spring plate off:


https://ibb.co/Zx1gzN0

The wooden clamp is called a "wood handscrew clamp." It's a great tool to have around, but I just about beat it to death taking the second torsion bar out. It's still clamping, though. I ended up wedging a screwdriver inbetween the body and the outer part of the jaws to get the angle right. Took about half an hour of banging to pull it.

On my second time around doing the disassembly, I was able to remove the shock absorber, pull the caliper, separate the spring plate, take the spring plate off, and take the torsion bar out in 3 hours. Took me several garage sessions on the other side. Hope your spring plate bushing project is going well Pedro!

[Larmo63]

Definitely new wheel bearings and re-build your steering box.

I re-plated and powder coated everything as I went.

Re-build your parking brakes too!

[AFB24911S]

Wow, those sure are some shiny parts! I've got my trailing arms pretty clean, but those put mine to shame.

Steering box sounds like a good idea, I'll work on that once I get to the front suspension. Had front wheel bearings replaced when I bought the car, so I'm good there; when re-building parking brakes, what should be replaced; just the springs and the shoes, or are there any other wear components?

[Larmo63]

I had the swing arms tumbled.

Replace shoes on parking brakes as needed. It will probably need it.

Not a bad idea to replace the cables too?

[AFB24911S]

Good call, I'll have to look up how to do that. So much "while you're in there," but worthwhile because I love this car! Side note: I've decided to paint the wheels red like the 1988 Clubsport or the fabled RS, and I'm doing red stripes to match. Super excited for summer.

But, in the meantime, a big fail and some strong progress: I rebuilt the right side successfully after switching the torsion bars and I've got both axles rebuilt; I've also got Schnorr washers for the reinstall. Also took the left rear apart fully, replaced the trailing arm bushing on that side, and painted all the old parts I'm keeping. BUT, the bone-headed move of the month was that I epoxyed my inner race for the poly bronze bushings to the spring plate BEFORE putting the two pieces back together. Had to cut it off, need a new one of those bad boys. Hopefully the good people of Elephant Racing will take pity on me and let me buy a replacement piece for less than the $375 for the entire kit.

The difficulty now is that I'm having a very hard time with the new trailing arm bushing on this side. Besides the fact that there's a bunch of throttle linkage and brake lines in the way, it just doesn't want to stay in once I start to loosen my jig to squeeze them together. So, I'm going to cut up the old trailing arm bushing to create a better jig, hopefully one that will allow me to both squeeze the bushings and push them in far enough to loosen without them sliding out again.

More soon, any tips/tricks for reinstalling the trailing arm are welcome.

[chrismorse]

First, make sure you have the bushings pressed all the way in, both sides.
Next, take a piece of all thread, a couple of washers and nuts to open up the mounting ears, so you can slip the trailing arm into the chasis mounts.
finally, I have heard it recommended to not tighten the pivot bolt, untill the car is sitting on the ground, so that the bushings will have zero torque, (resistance), at ride height. If you tighten the pivot bolt with the car in the air, the bushings get a lot more stress when lowered to ride height. Not sure how serious this is, but worth considering. Hopefully others that have been there and done this will comment,

Don't forget to move the height adjusting cam on the trailing arm to a neutral-centered position, so you don't run out of adjustment when corner-weighting. I went with the "quick change" Elephant spring plates to facilitate corner weighting.

While you have a lot of stuff out of the way, check your rear anti-roll bar mounts. If you are upgrading the bars, might be good to do a preemptive reinforcement, as the middies are notorious for ripping the mounts off. ( my dad ordered the car in 74, with carrera bars, 20 & 18. He was a very easy driver and at some point he managed to rip off one of the rear mounts and his shop just removed the rear bar!!

beware the slope,
chris

[chrismorse]

Originally Posted by Larmo63

Definitely new wheel bearings and re-build your steering box.

I re-plated and powder coated everything as I went.

Re-build your parking brakes too!

Dayum, that is some pretty stuff.
:-) chris

[AFB24911S]

Good tip Chris! I was able to use that trick you described on the right side, but on the left it isn't working as well. Maybe it's just that my fingers were cold as I was working, it was real cold in the garage last weekend (Colorado). But I'll be giving it another go, and if just the washers and all-thread don't work I'm going to cut a section out of the old bushings to use those to squeeze the new bushings and fit them in.

Interesting point about tightening the trailing arm bushings after the car's on the ground, but that begs the question: how does one tighten that nut with the car on the ground? I don't have an inspection pit. I could always ask whoever I get to do the alignment to slacken it and tighten it from under the car while it's on the rack.

Good news: the benevolent people at Elephant Racing allowed me to buy a replacement inner race, so I will be able to put the spring plate on this weekend!

[Solamar]

Originally Posted by AFB24911S

MORE PROGRESS! Hope you're going well, Solamar.

Excellent progress! I think it's great that your taking the time to document your progress (and mistakes). Gluing the bushing on a partially assembled spring plate is definitely something I would do...

Sounds like you haven't started the front end yet. I have learned a tip about the front A arm polybronze that I haven't seen mentioned. Getting rid of front to rear play is very important or you will get 'clunking' while driving. I though I had removed all the play (pushed the front bearing caps rearward with my thumbs while tightening bolts) but it wasn't enough. A very knowledgeable friend put my car on his lift and instructed me to hit the A arms forward and backwards with a dead blow hammer, and sure enough there was almost 1/8" of play. He showed me how to slightly loosen the front bearing cap bolts and tap the cap rearward eliminating all play. Front end is silent now even on the roughest roads.

My car is done now and I'm enjoying the heck out of it. I intentionally went light on the front spring rates (20/27) to shift the bias to the rear (I did not want to increase understeer) with the plan to add an adjustable front sway bar if needed, it was. I installed a Tarett 22mm through body sway bar (set on the softest setting) and couldnt be happier with the outcome. Flat cornering, compliance over bumps and a good balance front to rear.

I found working on the rear suspension to be substantially more difficult than the front. Hopefully you'll have the same experience!


edit - you may be past this point now, but there is an error in the Bentley manual regarding the torque of the wheel bearing cover plate. It is NOT 34 ftlbs! Should be 18 ft lbs