Porcshe or Volkswagen!!!!

[RickKlem]

I had a discussion (again) with fellow coworkers today regarding a Porsche being nothing but a Volkswagen Bug on steroids.

My comment to them was, first of all isn’t that like me saying something stupid like your Ford Mustang is nothing but a Ford Pinto on steroids. Or your Chevy Corvette is nothing but a Chevy Cavalier on roids. Not that I have any bad fillings toward either type car, I like them both. Porsche designed the Vw beetle; VW did not design the Porsche. They need to check their history.

And another thing, what’s so bad about a Volkswagen Bug. I made the statement that it is the most sold production car and they said that was Bull Sh@t.

So I went out and found this web site and thought it was cool. That’s why I opened this thread to share this site with you. Check out the photo of the proto type VW bugs and Ferdinand Porsche showing his design of the VW Bug to Hitler.


http://www.serial-design.com/mechanical_design/vw.htm


See Ya
Rick

[jazzbass]

I hear this all the time. It doesn't help that my car (like a lot of other's, I'm sure) smells like an old VW. Since I like old VWs, I take no offense in this - after all, the designs DO have quite a bit in common (air cooled boxer engine, heat exchangers, rear engine, torsion bars, and, of course the smell).

If they think its a VW, let them think it. They obviously don't get it, and probably never will. Their loss. The only person's opinion that should matter about your car is your. My $0.02.

Nice article, btw. Love the old pictures - esp the beetles w/o rear windows.

[jmohn]

Originally posted by RickKlem
I had a discussion (again) with fellow coworkers today regarding a Porsche being nothing but a Volkswagen Bug on steroids.



And another thing, what’s so bad about a Volkswagen Bug. I made the statement that it is the most sold production car and they said that was Bull Sh@t.


http://www.serial-design.com/mechanical_design/vw.htm


See Ya
Rick

It's hard to believe anyone would be so dim as to not recognize one of the most successful (if not THE most successfull) automobile designs in the world. I hope these co-workers are not in positions of responsibility.

Great link, BTW, I especially enjoyed Nordoff's quote "Professor Porsche had worked something into it that made this diamond very much worth our while polishing".

Jerry M
'78 SC

[thrown_hammer]

I just tell them it must suck to get whooped on the track all the time by beetles...

[targa911S]

If they are THAT stupid why bother trying to convince them otherwise. You are the one driving the Porsche..right? .

[dotorg]

There are an awful lot of similarities between how the two cars were built... to some extent, you gotta be careful arguing their statement because they're basically correct from a chassis construction standpoint... after all there's a reason people pimp out those old Beetles!

You can't say its like calling a Corvette a Cavalier, because those two cars are constructed vastly differently (especially when you look at something like the Z06). Fact is there is a lot of design considerations in common between the Beetle and the Porsche. That says something about the Beetle, though, not the other way around.

Point out to him that both designs (the 911 and the Beetle) changed very little in 40 years. Ask him why that might be!

Now, that said, I'm glad I've got a 911 and not a Beetle ;-)

[MarkP]

There was a thread a while back that listed the incredible winning racing record of Porsche over the years. Find that, print it out and hand it to them, don't say a word.

[jazzbass]

Originally posted by dotorg

Now, that said, I'm glad I've got a 911 and not a Beetle ;-)

I wish I had both - I'd love a nice 56 oval window with lots of chrome and a nice two tone paint job. But that's just me.

The reality is that there is a good reason the 911 looks like a beetle - evolution. The 356 evolved from the beetle, in the early days using many of its parts. When the 911 (901) was designed, the option was raised to make it a mid engined car (which probably would have been better, really) but Porsche played it conservative and evolved the concept, if not the actual design, of the 356 even more.

[Wavey]

Originally posted by MarkP
There was a thread a while back that listed the incredible winning racing record of Porsche over the years. Find that, print it out and hand it to them, don't say a word.

here you go:

PORSCHE - Event Overall Wins

Makes and Team World Championship 14

Long Distance World Championship 8

IMSA Supercar-Series 3

German Racing Championship 6

European Hill Climbing Championship 20

Formula 1 World Championship (driver)
(McLaren with the engine designed and
built by Porsche for TAG) 3

Formula 1 victories
(McLaren with the engine designed and
built by Porsche for TAG) 25

Formula 1 victories
(together with the victory in Rouen in 1962) 26

Daytona (24 Hour Race) 20

Supercar-Race (USA) 15

Le Mans (24 Hour Race) 16

Sebring (12 Hour Race) 17

Targa Florio 11

Rallye Monte Carlo 4

Paris-Dakar Rallye 2

[Eric Mckenna]

Originally posted by Wavey
here you go:

PORSCHE - Event Overall Wins

Makes and Team World Championship 14

Long Distance World Championship 8

IMSA Supercar-Series 3

German Racing Championship 6

European Hill Climbing Championship 20

Formula 1 World Championship (driver)
(McLaren with the engine designed and
built by Porsche for TAG) 3

Formula 1 victories
(McLaren with the engine designed and
built by Porsche for TAG) 25

Formula 1 victories
(together with the victory in Rouen in 1962) 26

Daytona (24 Hour Race) 20

Supercar-Race (USA) 15

Le Mans (24 Hour Race) 16

Sebring (12 Hour Race) 17

Targa Florio 11

Rallye Monte Carlo 4

Paris-Dakar Rallye 2

[TSNAPCRACKLEPOP]

a 59 would not have an oval window in it, the larger rear window started in '58. 1957 was the last year of the factory oval window.

[TSNAPCRACKLEPOP]

the only hrome was the bumpers and lid handles, the rest was annodized and polished aluminuminumum.

[Bob's Flat-Six]

I've heard those statements too, Got one the other day from a guy at a tire shop. They always seem to come from the same type of person

[Schuey]

people often make fun of what they don't understand...chances are they're trying to get under your skin and probably are already there...


curious, do they call it a Porsch instead of Porsche too?

[Paul Franssen]

Aaaargh... never mind! When I was a small child, my dad (Belgian military) was stationed near Köln for about 5 years, and he bought his first car: a used VW, with the 2 small mirror-image windows in the back. Car drove everywhere, prototype "tourists" throughout Germany and Austria, with my baby brother "niched" in the tub behind the rear seats. I distinctly remember, (back in those days, the mid-fifties), my dad was smoking his self-rolled cigarette and (there appear to have been gas fumes in the car) all of a sudden the whole ceiling caught fire (it was only the gasses, and it was easily extinguished). The stuff memories are made of. When my Porsche idles, I fondly recall rather direct beetle memories, same kind of sound (not when I rev her up!) So, in my view, it's not bad being compared to VW, and for arguments' sake, people will make the stupidest of statements, so...

[pohsche]

Hey guys,
Having worked on both cars for years, I agree whole hearted. The design elements are along the same path with natural progression thrown in. After all the Dr. did have something to do with both cars. The only difference I see is in the egos of the owners!

Alan Poh
'77 Carrera 3.0

[TSNAPCRACKLEPOP]

omg! jazzbass, my dyslexia in inverted!! 59 vs 56!!

[jmohn]

Originally posted by pohsche
Hey guys,
Having worked on both cars for years, I agree whole hearted. The design elements are along the same path with natural progression thrown in. After all the Dr. did have something to do with both cars. The only difference I see is in the egos of the owners!

Alan Poh
'77 Carrera 3.0

Yeah, those VW guys are an uppity bunch.

Jerry M
'78 SC

[jluetjen]

Uh -- I say that all the time. I don't see a problem with that statement. I haven't spent a huge amount of time in Bugs or Beatles, but I have to admit that up to about 3000 RPM, I feel that my 2.0E sounds and feels like those few times that I was in one of the aircooled VW products. OK, the exhaust on my 911 sounds better (although I've never heard a 6 cylinder Bug engine ), but up to 3000 RPM, it's the air-cooled clatter and the fan noise coming from the back that make up most of the sound. Not to mention the light steering, shifter feel and the sensation of the engine bouncing inthe back. Considering how many of the air cooled VW products have been made and sold to happy owners around the world (and in many cases are still running), I'd hardly consider it an insult.

Now above 3000 RPM (isn't that a bug's redline anyhow ), the 911 just goes into warp while the bug goes into valve float. Once I hit 4000 RPM the MFI is singing and the engine is pulling like no VW ever could. By the time I get to 7000 RPM (double a VW's rev's and most likely double the road speed too ) there are few if any engines or cars that compare to my 911 that don't have a horse on the badge.

So I guess considering the success of the concept -- no matter how you look at it: units sold, years in production, customer dedication, performance, race wins, whatever! -- the rear engined air cool car was a success. Why should I be offended?

[Superman]

When I hear this comment, I brighten up as though my car has just received a fine compliment, and I agree. "Yes, thank you," I say. Fact is, not only is the VW Beetle the most successful car in automotive history, virtually ALL passenger cars have now borrowed extensively from its design. The absence of a separate frame, for example.

Here's another observation (besides the fact that our "VWs" regularly lap the competition on the track): Every single time I have seen someone drive a Beetle for the first time, a smile appears on their face that does not go away, and they make comments like "Wow, this thing handles really well" and "Boy, this thing is really fun to drive." I saw it happen again just weeks ago. The bug was a 1967 model.