dizzy crane

[jimmyjimmy]

On the car I bought 76 911 there s a Crane cams module wired to the dizzy.
I don t know if the dizzy has the cams components in the dizzy. I took a foto and I see a black round plate ,is this a Crane thing? Should there be something else?
The original 3 pinCDI is also in the car and the wires aren hanging all loose.
Do, I need to attach those wires too in combination with the Crane?

[stownsen914]

Crane used to make a point replacement module called the XR700. It was an optical trigger thing that sits inside the distributor and had a little box outside the distributor, comparable to Pertronix. That seems to match what you have in the pic.

I'm not sure if they still sell the stand-alone optical trigger. It might be incorporated into an ignition box product.

Found this => https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig207.htm

[HaroldMHedge]

That looks like a Crane XR700 to me. I used to have one in my 914.

[jimmyjimmy]

Thanks, can you see if the optical thing is installed or are there still points?

the color of the unit is gold metal saying crane cams not sure XR700

do these units work well and do they fully replace de Bosh cdi?

[tobluforu]

I have a crane on a 75 Yamaha rd350 and it works great. I also have a crane fireball coil on my Porsche with stock cdi and that has been working great for 20 years. It's kind of the equivalent to the pertronix unit.
Pull the rotor off and snap a few pixs as its hard to miss.
No they do not replace the cdi
If the car runs with it, leave it be for now, or go back to stock.
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/640218-crane-xr700-capacitive-discharge.html

[stownsen914]

No, no points - you remove them when you install this thing.

Here's a non-Porsche installation showing the unit with the distributor cap off. It's basically a little plastic disk with slots that you slide onto the distributor shaft, along with an LED light and a light detecting module that goes in place of the points. The disk interrupts the light but lets it pass through the slots at the appropriate times to trigger the ignition similar to what the points would do.

[jimmyjimmy]

weel I think the optical thing is there, it s holding the black plate , so I assume no points can t get the rotor off because of the optical sensor.

So I m left with the question how to wire the 3 pin CDI together with the crane ?
What goes where? Which wires go exactly where?

[Schulisco]

Originally Posted by jimmyjimmy

do these units work well and do they fully replace de Bosh cdi?

No. They seems to replace the points only which is a good thing because they're mainly free of wear and will work almost endlessly...The CDI will work as before with the points. The Crane is a good technical improvement for reliability and operation safety.

Here's a similar and good connection schema which should also fit for yours, I suppose that the Crane unit will be similar:

CDI to Distributor

Also good resource:
https://www-911--hkz-de.translate.goog/Techdaten.htm?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Thomas

[tobluforu]

Yep, it's there, dirty, and it does not hold that plate, that plate spins. Pull rotor and spray it out with canned air. Now, what you should do is remove it, clean the disc and the optical unit.
I take it it's not working. If that is the case, there are a ton of threads in regard to Crane. Do a search for: Crane, and start reading. I know I have seen threads on how its wired, etc.
One last thing, I'm pretty sure Crane/Allison made a unit HI6s that actually replaced the CDI. Or at least a system that some people got to work. Make sure you don't have that as well. There will be another bigger black box mounted somewhere. Or there might be an MSD ignition tied to the crane.
Good luck

[jimmyjimmy]

ok , i will do that.how does the rotor come off?
read a lot about it but I still haven t found a real electrical wiring .

what happens with the wires going from crane to the coil? and the wires going from the cdi to the coil?
do i need to mount a ballast too?

i bet i can get the 12V for the crane from one of the 3 fuses on the panel

not sure how the cdi gets his 12V

hmmmm....

[E Sully]

The rotor just pulls straight up to remove it. There's a tension spring that keep it on the shaft.

[Long Nose]

I am caching up on my research about the optical trigger and distributors. So, does the mechanical advance in the distributor still modify the timing as the RPM increases? What changes the distributor curve, is that still a mechanical thing or is that no longer needed now?

What about the new 123ignition distributors that have a programable curve - is this compatible with the optical trigger?

https://123ignitionusa.com/porsche-911-bt-tune-2-0-2-2-1965-1977-works-with-or-w-o-3-pin-hkz-not-6-pin-bluetooth-programmable/

Anyone have any advice on the distributor?

[stownsen914]

With the Crane trigger, advance is still handled by the distributor as normal. Their optical trigger replaces only the points.

[Schulisco]

Originally Posted by Long Nose

What about the new 123ignition distributors that have a programable curve - is this compatible with the optical trigger?

https://123ignitionusa.com/porsche-911-bt-tune-2-0-2-2-1965-1977-works-with-or-w-o-3-pin-hkz-not-6-pin-bluetooth-programmable/

Anyone have any advice on the distributor?

The 123 is available in several versions for the 911: Depending on the engine the dimensions and the trigger varied over time.
3.0l SC's always have an inductive trigger. Up to 1977 models the dizzies had non wearfree mechanical breaker points only. Most people replaced them by wearless electronic solutions. Very common and recommended upgrade. On SCs this is nonsense as the inductive pickup is wearfree too. Both approaches are completely different and not interchangeable against each other. This has consequences on the choice of a 123 for a 911. There are versions for both approaches available. So you need to chosse the 123 fitting to your engine hardware and ignition trigger signal for the CDI. Also the trigger signal is being used for the tachometer too. This makes it pretty clear to keep the trigger signal version on your car.
The SCs got a 6pin CDI with inductive pickup, so you need a 123 for exactly these engines. Previous 911 engines got a 3pin CDI with breaker input, here are other 123 versions available.

Internally the 123 is basically a fully functional coil ignition / modern IDI asused in modern cars too except that they use one coil / ignition module per cylinder there. You can keep the CDI for original look'n'feel and a slightly higher ignition energy than the 123 as an IDI. When you choose to use the 123 standalone instead, you also need another ignition coil (for coil ignition/IDI) as the CDI coil is basically a transformer only.
I recommend to stuck with the ignition system trigger the engine originally had and to continue using the CDI. Even when selling the car your successor will be happy as he still can refer to the old schematics.

I purchased the 123 tune+ before the SC version was available. It still has a breaker point output. I firstly used it together with another IDI module. After some experiments and due to other circumstances I use now a Permatune CDI box with breaker trigger input with that 123. As the tachometer signal still comes instead from the Permatune CDI box there's no issue with the tachometer too. Otherwise I had to replace the tachometer with a breaker version what I wanted to prevent.
Very happy with it. Due to the total control of the ignition curve you can tune the 123 perfectly on your car. Especially you can cover any specialties. Perfect cold start with 0° advance as the factory setup suggested incl. a programmable rpm limiter and an individual vacuum curve with only one input (instead of two on the original dizzy with advance and retard).

Thomas

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by Schulisco

The 123 is available in several versions for the 911: Depending on the engine the dimensions and the trigger varied over time.
3.0l SC's always have an inductive trigger. Up to 1977 models the dizzies had non wearfree mechanical breaker points only. Most people replaced them by wearless electronic solutions. Very common and recommended upgrade. On SCs this is nonsense as the inductive pickup is wearfree too. Both approaches are completely different and not interchangeable against each other. This has consequences on the choice of a 123 for a 911. There are versions for both approaches available. So you need to chosse the 123 fitting to your engine hardware and ignition trigger signal for the CDI. Also the trigger signal is being used for the tachometer too. This makes it pretty clear to keep the trigger signal version on your car.
The SCs got a 6pin CDI with inductive pickup, so you need a 123 for exactly these engines. Previous 911 engines got a 3pin CDI with breaker input, here are other 123 versions available.

Internally the 123 is basically a fully functional coil ignition / modern IDI asused in modern cars too except that they use one coil / ignition module per cylinder there. You can keep the CDI for original look'n'feel and a slightly higher ignition energy than the 123 as an IDI. When you choose to use the 123 standalone instead, you also need another ignition coil (for coil ignition/IDI) as the CDI coil is basically a transformer only.
I recommend to stuck with the ignition system trigger the engine originally had and to continue using the CDI. Even when selling the car your successor will be happy as he still can refer to the old schematics.

Thomas

Thomas

variable reluctance sensor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor

The "ignition system trigger" when using the 123 system is the 123 system, which can directly "trigger" a coil, eliminating a potential failure point - the CDI.