Beginner “mechanic” help me not screw up
 

My ‘85 Carrera has a pretty bad leak at the camshaft to chain tensioner line. Not sure why it has started, but even after trying to tighten,the leak persists. I figured I will just replace that line (Part #: 930-107-347-15-M20) AND the little carrier line (Part#: 930-107-347-05-INT).
Are these the correct 2 parts for the driver’s side? Any good DIY videos or steps for this? Torque specs for the lines?
I’ve removed all the plastic heater ducting and cleaned up the area, just need to replace the lines.
Next, I’m pretty sure the external oil thermostat isn’t doing its job. Oil is not sending to the front fender cooler. No pinched lines. Tips, tricks, videos on fixing the external oil thermostat? I’ve found one video by Garage Time that doesn’t make it seem easy. I don’t have welding skills or a very good local shop I can trust for the repair.
Is there some sort of external thermostat work around or bypass? Upgrade from a 964?

Thanks for helping a beginnerhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1738020517.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1738020517.jpg

The metal lines crack at the top solder joint. There is a support bracket that you can install. Easy swap.

So don’t swap the current lines and just install the support bracket?
Swap the lines AND install the support bracket?

Yours is likely cracked - so swap out and add the support bracket.

Thanks

This the right part number?
Part#: 930-107-341-00-OEM

Yes, that is the correct bracket for the left side. There is different bracket on the right side.

You also need the clamp that wraps around the oil line: PCG51117402
And the pan head screw that fastens the clamp to the bracket: 90011908801
And two sealing rings where the thin metal tensioner line connects to the chain cover: 90012311530

The other issue you may find is the new metal line you are ordering may not fit the older oil line with the rubber segment. I think the oil line with the rubber segment is different now, and requires a different metal line than the original. See this thread: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1134325-oil-tensioner-line-too-short-help.html

This thread also has a good photo of how the bracket mounts.

Mark

Thanks Mark. Have all the listed parts in my cart. Best to have the oil completely drained from the car or replacing these lines will only have a touch of oil and draining isn’t necessary?

Anyone have thoughts or tips on the external oil thermostat? Difficult job? Doable? Is there a bypass? Would love to wrap up some projects on this car to get it back on the road come spring.

Removing any tension from the chain tensioner line when installing the new one, will make it last longer

What makes you think your external thermostat doesn't work properly? At what engine temp do you check that oil lines get hot up to the front?

Mine doesn't fully open until oil temp gauge gets 3mm above first line. That's nearly 9 o'clock. See pic.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1738060195.jpg

I had let a workshop doing that ugly job of overhauling the oil thermostat years ago. No easy job for a beginner, but when you're an experienced mechanic in general you should be able to make it.

There are some additional videos and info available:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbPnvMDWDmc German title, english comments ;) Shows pretty good the hazzle you have to deal with while working on any of the oil lines....

https://youtu.be/DWDsVb5t_k8

Patience, heat - and probably some beer - will help a lot ...

You know, that your 911 has 2 oil thermostats? One external we spoke about, but also an internal one to manage the engine oil cooler next to cyl. bank #2 behind cyl. #6... Determine that this oil cooler works too.

Thomas

First YT link is a 10-second commercial in German. ;)

I think you should be able to do the swap without draining any oil from the car. You shouldn't get much out of the oil lines, but definitely have a towel under the top fitting.

Forgot about the oil thermostat - was going to ask you the same questions as you got already. It probably won't open if you are idling. Now if you are overheating while driving and the oil lines are cold, then I'd be worried about either the internal thermostat or the one in front of the rear wheel to the front cooler.

Mark

Damn. :eek:
Thanks, corrected it...

Here is a Porsche Tech Bulletin on the brackets to protect the new lines:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1738088609.jpg

Why do you think it is not working?

Go for a drive and get the temperature up to 210+F. Then quickly pull over and feel the lines between the external thermostat and cooler with your hands to check if they are warm.

Here is a good post on how the external thermostat works:

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/927332-how-external-oil-thermostat-works-illustration.html

[QUOTE=wazzz;12399398]What makes you think your external thermostat doesn't work properly? At what engine temp do you check that oil lines get hot up to the front?

Mine doesn't fully open until oil temp gauge gets 3mm above first line. That's nearly 9 o'clock. See pic.

My temp will go above the top white line during a drive and the lines to the front cooler will still be cold.

@schulisco: thanks for your thoughts and links. I know about the 2 thermostats. With the external lines staying cold, feels like it is more the external thermostat. 🤷🏼*♂️

@mark: sounds good. For sure will have towels around. Won’t open while driving. Just figured it was the external. Internal easier to check/assess/replace? Start there and then work to the external?

@errormargin: appreciate the schematic and tips!

[QUOTE=Chsnsurf;12399681] The external oil thermostat opens up at 83°C/181°F (IIRC I read somewhere about 87°C/188°F don't know). Refer to what the '82 911 SC manual says:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1738096262.png

I guess the values of the later Carrera won't have changed much. As they run leaner than the CIS equipped SCs they may run a little hotter, but not that much.

If the oil lines and the fender oil cooler remain cold when the gauge climbs to the middle then the thermostat is the culprit most likely. OTOH make sure that your mixture setting switch at the engine ECU under drivers seat is set correctly to your engine and area. (https://www.swchips.com/fuelsys.html)

What kind of temp gauge do you have in your car?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1738097671.png

Thomas

I have style B in my car. I always drive in a way that warms up the engine first before doing any “harder” driving. I’ll take a look at my mixture setting switch and read up on that, but I’ve had the car here for 5 years now and this hasn’t been an issue until recently. About same time the leak at the chain tensioner started.

Buy a set of flare wrenches for those type fittings.

Got em already.

One issue I had with the oil lines was the banjo bolt with the two washers. I kept getting a leak, even after swapping the washers for new ones. The entire assembly of washes and banjo bolt have to be super clean, and just the right amount of torque to keep them leak free.

Got the new lines swapped. Took her for a little drive and have no leaks. Also seems like the thermostat was working again. Maybe since the oil pressure with non leaking lines was better? Drove for 20 minutes and sat idling at a friends house and it never rose over the first temp line. Side lines were warm/hot feeding the oil cooler in the fender. Seems all good…for now.
Thanks everyone!

Great, thanks for the update. Always good to get closure on a problem.

Thanks for the feedback. So it seems you have Style B gauge as per the doc posted on previous page. If I understand it correctly, your external oil thermostat starts opening at 90°C, that is first temp line.
Mine only opens once the reading on the gauge has reached nearly 9 o'clock. See the pic I posted on previous page. That is only at that reading on the gauge that I can feel both lines are getting hot along the side of the car.
I begin to wonder if my external thermostat is failing. What do you people think? Is this far too late for the external thermostat to open? Sorry to hijack.

@Gilles
I would check at first the temp sensor if this is the right one matching to car and gauge. Then check the electrical connections / contacts, esp. ground.

The oil thermostat from the external oil cooler in the rear right fender is a Behr TO-282 with an opening temperature of 83°C/181°F

More reference numbers of the thermostat:
MAHLE - 1.249.83 / 124983
MAHLE - 70807743 / 70807743
MAHLE - 70809114 / 70809114
MAHLE - TO 2 83 / TO283
PORSCHE - 930 107 155 00 / 93010715500
PORSCHE - 930 107 755 00 / 93010775500

If the temp gauge reading is correct your engine seems to run too hot. IMO mostly a wrong ignirion timing may cause this as it happened to.my SC. but yours is a Carrera with ignition timing being managed by the Motronic. Maybe it runs a bit too lean??? Check the mixture.

Thomas

Thomas

Thanks Thomas. This has been going on for a few years now. Everything is stock on my car. Never changed external thermostat or temp sensor, so they are the same as when they left the Porsche factory. Checking the temp sensor is a good idea. However, right now with cold ambient temps my car runs cold, I mean the needle never go past what I think should be more or less 80°C, that is 3 or 4 mm before first line on temp gauge. This is the maximum I can get even when driving several hours at legal speeds (130 km/h).
This 9 o'clock situation only occurs on hot summer days when ambient temp is around 30°C or over.
But I'm pretty sure it never did that a few years back. The underside oil lines used to get hot at a lower temp reading. This is why I suspect a failing external thermostat. Is it possible that it binds and only opens at a higher than nominal temp?
Thanks. ;)

This is pretty normal and I know this behaviour from my car too earlier. Now - since I replaced the old bigger intermediate pieces the temperatures won't climb that high on hot summer days and the engine runs noticeable cooler anytime.
When your car didn't do it earlier something has changed.
Check the oil lines going to front oil cooler when car is barely driven 2-3 mls...if they are already getting warm too these colder days, the thermostat may have stuck somewhere in between and remains open all the time. Then this may be the culprit...

Thomas