1982 911SC occasional hard shifting into 1st

[Micha]

1982 911SC shifting question

Resurrecting this car from near scrap, got most things working and is drivable now but one problem remains elusive. Current mileage is 107k miles plus, odometer stopped counting.

Problem:

About 50 % of the time, when idling at stop, it is hard to shift into 1st. Between all other gears it shifts great, no grinding anywhere. If rolling, it’s a bit easier to get into 1st, but not every time.

When it refuses to go into 1st, I can shift into second or third than back into first just fine. Or I can let go of the clutch, push clutch again and most of the time it goes in as normal.

I am suspecting something loose or worn in the transaxle end of things, but need to hear what others think.

What I’ve done so far:

- Replaced shifting cross under rear seat. Old one as worn and sloppy.
- Replaced shifter bushings under shifter console.
- Welded the shifter rod to shifter rod receptacle, old epoxy was failed.
- Performed shifter rod adjustment, got a lot of practice. I think this is mostly adjusted well.
- Replaced engine and transmission mounts, welded rear engine mount which was cracked.
- Adjusted clutch cable and arm free play with a feeler gauge.
- Clutch feel to be in a very good condition, engages towards to top of the pedal travel.
- Flushed transaxle with Swepco 201. Tried Redline 75W-90NS and it made shifting when cold great, same as shifting when fully warmed up, but I went back to Swepco to make sure I am not introducing some new problem.

What I haven’t done yet:

I haven’t taken the pedal assembly off to service it, I know the brake pedal needs a return spring or bushing isn’t lubricated properly.

Clutch arm is missing the little return spring, need to replace that.

Any ideas what could be going on here?

This is a fun little car, 1982 Targa with 993 wide body conversion, I’m hoping to get this shifting sorted.

[proporsche]

it is very common thing that the 1st gear goes..Most likely the syncho and dog teeth are broken.Have you drained the trans oil and see looked at the drain plug for some metal?If not do that.The previous owner most likely forced it into the 1st..

Ivan

[Matt Monson]

There’s nothing wrong with it. You’re just stopping the shaft from spinning by picking another gear first. If you kept the clutch to the floor the whole time at the stoplight, it would stop on its own, but your leg would be tired. Not just a Porsche or 915 thing…

[porschedude996]

I would take stock in what Matt says.

I personally had my 915 gone through completely and have about 600 miles on it. It too resists going into gear when cold, but gets better when warmed up. Don’t expect a older designed manual transmission to shift like a modern GT350 Mustang. Now that is a absolute God send joy. No comparison. It is part of the Air Cooled experience.

It would be an interesting experiment if you switched back to the Redline. I’m sure there is extensive posts on that subject.

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

There’s nothing wrong with it. You’re just stopping the shaft from spinning by picking another gear first. If you kept the clutch to the floor the whole time at the stoplight, it would stop on its own, but your leg would be tired. Not just a Porsche or 915 thing…

Matt,you think that the 1st would be ok, he is not just used to it?

Iv

an

[Funracer]

Mine, and many others from what I have read here, is the same. Inconvenient when you are at a four way stop and you have 1 second to go or get honked at by the teenager behind you.

First gear requires planning and early action. In neutral approaching the stop, clutch in early while still rolling. Just as you stop, light pressure into second. Don’t shift to second, just put the shifter where second is and feel it move towards second. Then cross your fingers for luck and shift to first.

Another thing that works sometimes is clutch pedal all the way in. Not 95% in, 100% to the floor and pull the shift lever left until it feels like its riding against the side of the tunnel, then into first.

Or just start out in second gear.

Got to love the 915. Good luck.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by proporsche

Matt,you think that the 1st would be ok, he is not just used to it?

Iv

an

That’s correct. When you pull to a stop, shift to neutral, and let the clutch out, the mainshaft is now spinning at your idle speed. And your idler gear is not spinning at all, because it’s riding on a bearing. To get it in cleanly you need to make it stop spinning. You can either depress the clutch and wait for inertia to pass, or you can briefly touch another gear before selecting first to make it stop. It’s really simple when it comes down to it, but people are always trying to jump off the line. They just aren’t waiting for it to stop spinning on its own.

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

That’s correct. When you pull to a stop, shift to neutral, and let the clutch out, the mainshaft is now spinning at your idle speed. And your idler gear is not spinning at all, because it’s riding on a bearing. To get it in cleanly you need to make it stop spinning. You can either depress the clutch and wait for inertia to pass, or you can briefly touch another gear before selecting first to make it stop. It’s really simple when it comes down to it, but people are always trying to jump off the line. They just aren’t waiting for it to stop spinning on its own.

Yup i kinda know this..was just wondering about how the OP uses his -he said sitting at Stop sign-not driving to it.... but it also could be the 1st gear is hit....that i have seen plenty of times..
Ivan

[porschedude996]

I went back to my grandfather showing me how to “Double Clutch” a manual transmission.

[nickelplated5s]

I remember Matt saying if you want to 'launch' it with a 901 box pick second gear. There are several threads about the double shuffle. I'd still change the oil if you don't know when it was done last.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Micha

- Flushed transaxle with Swepco 201. Tried Redline 75W-90NS and it made shifting when cold great, same as shifting when fully warmed up, but I went back to Swepco to make sure I am not introducing some new problem.

For street shifting, there are better alternatives to Swepco. You can do a search on tranny oil threads.

Just make sure it says truck oil !

[Fab64]

Interesting, everyone has their own tricks. Here's what I do:

- As I'm nearly at a stop, I softly ease the transmission into 1st gear (too fast and it may grind), If it's in 1st gear when I stop, it will easily go back into 1st.
- Shift into neutral and take my foot off the clutch while waiting for the light (avoids wear on the throw-out bearing).
- When light turns green, depress clutch and softly shift into 1st (that is, don't slam it into 1st). It usually goes in without issue.

After I've backed up and am now shifting into 1st, I'll softly "touch" 2nd before going into 1st.

Good luck!

[PeteKz]

Like everyone else said, it's typical for a 915. Mine does the same thing. If I roll up to a stop sign, I put it in first before I stop rolling (even so, it's often balky). If I'm sitting at a stop light in neutral with the clutch out, I put the clutch down, count to 2, then put it in first. If I simply step on the clutch and push it into 1st with no delay, it will grind. It's been like that for years/20,000 miles. Going into 2nd, then 1st helps too.

Ehh, get used to it. It's part of the "charm."

[proporsche]

for me i have always told my clients-not race peeps- that if you are going to stop(not California stop) there is no reason to shift into the 1st gear.You are going to stop anyway.
I drive the 911 beasts past 40 years, many kind ..most of the time i have to do trans job due to the way to quick shifting to 1st gear....
Everybody have their own techniques how to deal with the 915 transmissions.And the 915 is a very good work horse trany.....like it more them the g50;-)

Ivan
btw it is always good to take advice from the experts, like Matt and e.t.c.

[Bill Douglas]

My SC is a bit slow into first gear, the first time I shift into it for the day. From that point on it's fine. A bit weird, but I can live with it.

[Micha]

Interesting. I am ready to accept some shifting imperfections but I think there is still some room for improvement on mine.

Were these cars sold new with hard to select 1st gear?

I have the opposite going on of what Matt is describing. If I am at the stop, in neutral and holding the clutch for a longer period of time (5 seconds, let's say) - it will almost never go into 1st. Shifter feels like it's going against a wall unless I select a different gear first.

But if I push the clutch and immediately shift, while pedal is still travelling at the bottom, it goes goes into first the best. Also, if it is creeping forward slowly, it will almost always go into 1st easily.

Is it possible my throwout bearing is gummed up and won't let the main shaft stop turning?

[Matt Monson]

Impossible. Throw out beating rides on an external sleeve and makes zero contact with the mainshaft. And even if it did, being “gummed up” would make it stop immediately.

If you’re just sitting there with the clutch to the floor, put it in first as it spins down. Problem solved.

[Mtsurfposse]

+564 for occasional rejections from 1st while stopped

@micha. The spring doesn’t matter for this, it just takes slop out of system.
If you’ve replaced the rear bushing, you’re familiar with how to adjust the shifter right? The smallest tweaks can help.. and I’m talking about 0.2mm. To favor the first and second slot… this may make it worst for 5 and reverse but those two are almost useless
Also make sure your idle speed is proper850-950. If you’re resurrecting you’re probably erring in the high side
Lastly… I think I will go with Pmax and ditch sweepco… I don’t think that’s helping, and you seem to have proven it by swapping to redline and having no problems only to have problems return with sweepco right?

Smarter Porsche people chime in but doesn’t keeping clutch depressed at light hurt throw output bearing and fork in the long run

[proporsche]

Micha here is a video how to correctly adjust the coupler...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3nPONBAaZM

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Micha

1982 911SC shifting question
...
- Flushed transaxle with Swepco 201. Tried Redline 75W-90NS and it made shifting when cold great, same as shifting when fully warmed up, but I went back to Swepco ...

isn't truck oil.