Audio geeks, need your opinion...

[BGCarrera32]

Howdy-

I'm fabbing up a new rear deck panel for my 84 Carrera. It will basically be a copy of the stock design, I don't plan to build speaker standoffs/boxes/etc.

I know the orignal speaker from the factory was a 4x6 (I think)...I'm seeking an opinion on what would be a good choice back there and what will FIT EASILY. Use a 4x6 again or not? Not interested in spending big bucks, but wouldn't mind decent tunes once in a while. I have a small 40w x2 amp I plan to run under the passenger seat for the rear speakers.

The last fool kludged in some 6x9s which destroyed the deck panel, looked way too big, didn't fit, grills fell off. Not gonna repeat that, and NOT looking for bling colors, etc.

Thanks-
BG

[Steve W]

Don't install rear speakers, it's a waste of money and destroys good imaging from what would come from a good pair of properly installed front speakers. When you are at a concert, or listening to music in your home, music comes from front and center in front of you, with some front left and right audio right? Put your money in a very good set front speakers and place your tweeters properly, and you won't need much of anything else. Kevlar Focals are always a good choice. Properly placed, you should get that surround sound effect, even from the rear. Just recover your rear deck without speaker holes, and delete the extra amp for the rear.

[CHILI]

I agree with Steve W. to a point. The only problem is the sound field is too low in the car with just the fronts. Unless you want to dynomat everything which is too heavy for a P-car IMHO, you can't hear them well. I have one of the 6X9 boxes offered in the back of Excellence mag. Although mine looks a little different. I put in on top of the seat backs when they are down and have removable clips for the speaker wires in-case I need to put something back there that's too big. I just un-hook it and toss it under the hood. 6X9 Boston's and they sound decent. But I do put the fader way to the front, so there's more power up front, like Steve said.

[bell]

the advice above is good.......and i TOO do not run rear speakers.
but to each his own

there are a few speakers on the market where their 6.5" is very shallow (clarion/pioneer) but the power handling capability of these speakers is pretty weak. you should be able to get around 2-2.5" clearance between the metal below and the grills using foam spacers like porsche did under there. also the back part of the rear seat is sewn to the rear deck.....take your time unstitching it, it won' need restitched to the deck.....the button screws on the front will hold them both in place.
don't expect much bass response as there won't be much at all.
stay away from the cheap stuff and you'll be alright.

[Steve W]

If one uses a wide dispersion tweeter such as a inverted dome Focal, and aim them right, you will have a soundfield that envelops you and the soundstage will appear as if its coming from above your dashboard and beyond your windshield. Less is better and it couldn't be more true in car audio. But if you must install a set of rear speakers, a set of quality rear plates with a 4" driver and a separate tweeter would work ok and keep the proper balance so it wouldn't look out of place. ADS used to make a set of 200is and Clarion used to make a nice set of plates under their Audia line long ago, though I'm sure there is probably something out there similar. As bell said, don't bother trying to get any bass out of there, as there's not enough airspace.

[toman]

I agree with most of the above about rear speaker. I must add though that if you must have rear fill get something round. Un-round speakers sound like poop...

[iamchappy]

You could try the infinity kappa or alpine 4 X 6 plate speakers.

http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/...=y&BasicSearch=

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033523155&category=14939

David

[BGCarrera32]

I'm swinging around now to just leaving the rears out. I rather like my flat 6 audio system anyway, and am just looking for supplemental tunes. If I may, what is involved in determining the proper placement and aim of the tweeters and front speakers? I have a coupe, and am going to scratch build my own RS style doorpanels, so perfect timing. I have some shot Alpine 6 1/2" (I think) in the door, with almost no bass response. Everything sounds "tinny". I'm sure a new set of quality parts would help tremendously, but any added advice on what speakers should be going in my doors would be appreciated.

Is Focal a brand name?

[jmohn]

Rod Birch suggests Kenwood 4x6 coaxial's, his opinion is well respected in some circles.

Jerry M
'78 SC

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Steve W
If one uses a wide dispersion tweeter such as a inverted dome Focal, and aim them right, you will have a soundfield that envelops you and the soundstage will appear as if its coming from above your dashboard and beyond your windshield.

the base is also angled..

Rod Birch said the 100+db from these Focals is ear damage..

and Rod is well respected.. he is one of the best dealers to deal with.. he tried to talk me out of spending more $$$ on better Focal tweeters.. but I'm on a mission for a stage as described by Steve W.............Ron

[iamchappy]

It's best to go listen to many different speakers, most will sound great dont get hung up on brand names you can find speakers that sound great for a third the price. Best Buy and Circuit City are a good local start Circuit City has some good buys they are more desparate for the dollars these days. Ebay is a great place to purchase for less, you will pay a hundred dollars more on the same pair of speakers locally at Audio King.

[RoninLB]

This is a sample wedge for the 6.5 Focal bass.. the lower part is flat and lays against the door panel.. I took a straight stick and nailed a flat disc to one end to lay against the speaker top sitting on the wedge.. this gave me the shooting angle.. this sample wasn't good enough/whatever...............Ron

[dwightp]

Nice options!

This one is probably not what you're wanting to hear...

I removed the stereo, amps and speakers. My "rear speakers" are now the left and right sides of a dual exhaust...aaaaaahhhhhhh. I recommend SSI's and a monty dual inlet/outlet muffler for the rears.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by dwightp

I recommend SSI's and a monty dual inlet/outlet muffler for the rears.

I love your recommendations.. because that's what I have.. a little flat with the flat cam overlap..

so my audio will also be adjusted with E-cams..

but I still want Jim Hendrix jamming out on the front hood.

[iamchappy]

The stereo's not for when your driving hard.
Great for traffic jams, long trips or washing the car.
Or if you have a teenage daughter.(THEN IT HAS TO BE LOUDER! than the flat six, you will have to look into a serious audio install with all the power of a twin turbo).

[Eric Coffey]

A nice 1/3 octave EQ and a few RTA sessions do wonders as well. Sort of like a corner-balance and alignment for your stereo system! Also, don't get hung up on speaker specs either. For instance component systems with high efficiency (db @ 1watt/1meter) ratings don't necessarily mean they are superior. It is usually the contrary, as lower db figures are typical of more sophisticated filter networks (used to flatten driver response "peaks and valleys"). Kind of like quality over quantity.

[PDACPA]

I think these are the ones I replaced my stock rears with. The grills were more oval on the new and stock were square, but the rear deck material adjusted ( FL sun) and look fine and fit is perefect.

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-uqOtXTzgLSc/ProdView.asp?s=0&cc=01&c=10&g=51400&I=023PCXT462

[TurboRuf]

I agree with the rear speaker delete recommendation as well. The 4X6 is a poor speaker design to begin with and rear speakers simply detract from proper sound staging. How many quality home speakers have you come across with a 4X6 driver?

Proper speaker alignment is the key to any good sounding audio system. Actually time alignment is, but that’s a whole different topic. The car environment is not very friendly when it comes to speaker placement, especially the 911. Ideally the left and right speakers would be at equal distance from the listener’s ears. This is a difficult task to achieve due to the seating arrangements and interior design of most vehicles. So you generally have to make some compromises.

My recommendation for front speaker alignment is the following:

The right tweeter should be pointing at the driver’s right ear and the left tweeter should be pointing at the passengers left ear. They should be placed as far forward and away from the listeners as possible. I found this to give a convincing soundstage that isn’t driver or passenger biased. The mid-bass should be angled in a similar fashion as well and as close to the tweeter as possible. This generally requires custom fabrication of a speaker pod or angled spacer.

Factory speaker placement in older cars has never been idea. As many have stated, the auto interior is a small place…less is more when it comes to speakers. Some of the best systems I’ve listened to consist of front components and a single sub.

[bell]

Originally posted by TurboRuf


The right tweeter should be pointing at the driver’s right ear and the left tweeter should be pointing at the passengers left ear.

the different types of speakers on the market are designed for either on-axis OR off axis......sometime aiming them at your ears does not work because of this........
the best way to tune is to use your ears with music you're familiar with and that was recorded well.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by TurboRuf

Actually time alignment is, but that’s a whole different topic.

Ideally the left and right speakers would be at equal distance from the listener’s ears. They should be placed as far forward and away from the listeners as possible. as close to the tweeter as possible.

TR....
I understand all your points.

I have an audio pro that will assist as soon as I wire up the Precision Power "Phase Shift Control".. this is what you mean by time alignment?

no room in foot well for a tweeter/bass pod.. so the doors is it.. What do you figure?