Classic Retrofit : Electric AC & Heat!

[almostordinary]

This may be the solution a lot of us have been searching for!

I did a full heat delete when I restored my 87, and have been looking at the Electric AC from CR for a while, but this may solve both AC and Heat for a lot of us in limbo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9_iMg_sfBU

Thoughts?

-Ian

[nospiners]

I have already bought the electric a/c from CR for my backdate , not installed yet , now it looks like it will be installed in my 87 Targa and the new system can go in the backdate.
Solves so many issues !!!!!!

[PTRL HD]

I need that in my life! I was just looking at exhausts and trying to figure out how to handle heat on my build (I planned on the CR A/C). This would simplify everything for me. And the timeline is about right when I'd be looking to purchase something.

Thanks for sharing!!!

[Ryan_Cunningham]

Ian,

My wife asks that you kindly stop posting in order to maintain adequate funds in our checking account.

[almostordinary]

Ha!!! How's that working out! I gotta come see the projects and meet the little guy!

[Nditiz1]

I do like innovation and I like CR AC (I have 2 setups). I can't get around free heat. I have backdated all 3 of my cars to early style free heat. I do not have a carrera 3.2 so I don't know what's involved to get free heat from that. Weight savings from not using heat exchangers, maybe some. SSI are better than stock. BBE, triad, stock early are all acceptable heat options. If you are running race headers there is probably a version size that has heat exchangers.

[almostordinary]

My issue is that when I had my rockers replaced my plan for my 87 was an LS swap, so I could run heat from a radiator...

When those rockers got welded, I opted not to have the hoses replaced that normally run the length of the rockers.... then I came to my senses and went the 3.2 route.... for me I could live w heated seats and call it a day, but my wife loves the car and on one cold drive up the mountains earlier this year I almost froze to death....

so this is the solution I've been looking for.

[EC900]

Quite an innovation combining both amenities but since it’s still a secret we’ll have to wait a bit to see the final product.
I’d like to know the output level of the heating aspect (video says from hoses) even if supplemented with heating elements, could it possibly overcome the many cracks and crevices winter driving brings into the classic 911/12 cabin including a defroster?

With HE’s its always been iffy to get regulated evenly, cold spots, cold feet, window fogging on the cooler days, worse when more humid in fall/winter. And then there’s the “aroma” when the wind backdrafts.

This CR dual unit will have standup to doing 3 or 4 seasons a year of duty if that’s going to be any consolation on either component.

[jungspike]

I'll was gunna buy their A/C unit. I'll wait for this version with heat.

[famoroso]

Kudos to Jonny and team for continuing to innovate for our funny lil' German cars!

I've already deleted heat & A/C on my '89 build and I'm contemplating deleting the fresh air blower setup too. I could see going with this CR heat & AC setup in the future. It's GREAT to have options.

[Ryan_Cunningham]

Originally Posted by almostordinary

Ha!!! How's that working out! I gotta come see the projects and meet the little guy!

Let me know when. Productivity has resumed because as of this week I'm only working Tues-Thurs!

Looking forward to following the next build.

[jrwilson]

So it loads the alternator to power the existing compressor but instead of using the cold flow it uses the hot? That seems wasteful? Or does producing heat use way less power than producing cold?

[Jonny H]

Originally Posted by jrwilson

So it loads the alternator to power the existing compressor but instead of using the cold flow it uses the hot? That seems wasteful? Or does producing heat use way less power than producing cold?

Think of it as moving heat from one place to another. With AC, you are moving heat from the cabin to the outside world. Reversing the refrigerant flow moves heat from the outside to the cabin.

Both 'directions' consume power, however, using a compressor to enhance the process results in more heating/cooling capacity than the power used to rotate the compressor. The relationship between power in and cooling/heating power out is called the COP (coefficient of performance). The compressor we use has an average COP of around 2.4. Hence 1000 watts of power in, gets you 2.4kW of heat or cooling.

To put that into context, a modern Webasto gasoline heater (STC2000) is 2kW.

[TRE Cup]

AND if you run the external oil cooler behind the condensers you get colder ambient air temps. BUT when its hot out, the a/c reverses this a pre heats the oil cooler ;-)

[Jonny H]

Originally Posted by TRE Cup

AND if you run the external oil cooler behind the condensers you get colder ambient air temps. BUT when its hot out, the a/c reverses this a pre heats the oil cooler ;-)

^ True.

p.s. Love my (your) headers Dave!

[jrwilson]

Will there be a retrofit kit for existing AC owners? I particularly like the new electric mixer valves.

[TeeJayHoward]

I've got a ton of servos downstairs, plus controller boards and an arduino which I was going to use to create electric flappers with. Now I don't have to!

I'll definitely be down for an upgrade kit for current A/C owners. My one concern is defrost, where you use the A/C system to dehumidify the hot air before blowing it at the windscreen. Is this functionality somehow retained?

...Also, does it still fit in the smuggler's box?

[Jonny H]

Originally Posted by TeeJayHoward

My one concern is defrost, where you use the A/C system to dehumidify the hot air before blowing it at the windscreen. Is this functionality somehow retained?

...Also, does it still fit in the smuggler's box?

We are using the same heat exchanger inside the blower both as an evaporator (AC mode) and a condenser (heat mode). Both heat and cooling modes have a dehumidifying effect. The only limitation we have found is that moving rapidly from AC to heat in high humidity can result in fogging in the car (no problems moving from heat to AC). TBH the same thing happens on my new heat pump equipped Volvo. Some heat pump cars have a separate condenser and evaporator in the blower but they are huge blower units - our cars are tiny.

My typical car usage is a chilly early start (6am) for a cars and coffee so I am in heating mode. I then talk bollocks () to car guys for a couple of hours and the day warms up and I drive back with AC. No fogging in this scenario.

I need to check the situation with LHD smuggler's box installs. I have it fitted on the original battery tray in a single mounting bracket that includes an Odyssey PC925. Spare wheel and jack still fit.

[Jonny H]

Originally Posted by jrwilson

Will there be a retrofit kit for existing AC owners? I particularly like the new electric mixer valves.

Yes, there will be an upgrade path for existing AC owners.

[jrwilson]

It is pretty tight in the smuggler's box, will there be room for that extra bit on the compressor?