what was behind the power increase from '87 to '88

[sknandigam]

What caused the power increase fom the 1987 model year Carrera 3.2 to the 1988? Was it just electronics? If so, would a chip on both cars put them on level ground? Thanks.

[livi]

Welcome to the forum!!

I am naturally more familiar with the ROW/Euro cars and they had the same power all the way from 84 to 89. 231 bhp. The US legislation possibly changed that on the US imported cars.

[Wavey]

If you're asking about two specific US-spec cars, rather than 87s and 88s in general, your 87 could have a 24-pin socket, with either chip #1267355236 (total dog) or #1236355302 (better).

It could also have a 28-pin, and chip #1267355357 (dog).

The '88 will be a 28-pin, and could have chip #1237355357 or #1237355358. So if your '87 has the "7" chip and your '88 has the "8" chip, there's the difference.

And yes, everything else being equal, both having 28-pin sockets, the same chip in both cars (either of the above or a performance chip) would provide equal performance.

[sknandigam]

Thanks guys. The reason why I ask is because I'm trying to decide if it is worth searching for an '88 over an '87 because of the power difference.

[jorian]

If there is a power increase between 87 and 88 I have never heard of it. As far as I know all North American 911s from 1984 to 1989 shared the 3.2 liter which was rated at 217 HP. The Club Sport version of 1987-88 may have had a tweak to produce more power.

If there is an increase it is insignificant and certainly not worth basing a buying decision on. The only significant difference in the 87-89 G-50 cars was the addition of 8'' rear Fuchs.

[tubwreck]

My understanding is that for US cars, 84-86 were rated at 207 while 87-89 were rated at 217. I believe that the 10 HP bump from 86-87 was due exclusively to revised software in the DME unit.

With regard to 8" Fuchs, these were standard on the 1989 Carrera only; 88 and earlier had either 15x7/15x8 or 16x6/16x7.

[don911]

Ed's reply +1

[Hugh R]

Gee, my ROW 84 Targa is listed at 241 HP, your "merican" ones got the short end of the stick, huh?

[Jeff Alton]

231.............


Cheers

[Steve W]

U.S. cars from 84-86 were factory rated at 207 DIN hp, California cars rated at 200, and the 87-89 Carreras at 217. The ROW spec cars were rated at 231 hp with their higher compression engine and lack of catalytic converter and O2 sensor.

The difference in the U.S. cars was not due to any mechanical difference, only the chip programming. Bruce Anderson once wrote that in dyno tests himself or someone he knew tested the early and late factory chips and found no significant difference in power. However in my testing, I've found that the later chip actually produces LESS hp than the early chip. After live mapping cars on the dyno, I routinely do a final run with the stock chip as a basis of comparison. If I do a run, with the 84-86 chip, and a run with a 87-89 chip, the difference is that the 87-89 chip produces 4-5 hp less hp at full throttle across the entire RPM range. This is all due to the ignition trim vs temp adjustment that dials back the 87-89 ignition timing maps back more aggressively as temps rise, reducing power output. Couple this with the increased weight of the G50, power seats and such and the later cars do not really have any significant advantage over the earlier ones. The later chips though do have some changes in the low and mid part throttle regions that increase the part throttle response and torque, making the later cars seemingly more powerful than the earlier ones to the average driver.

Revised software will equalize the power output of all the years out. Best advice is to find the car in the best condition you can find for your budget regardless of the year/chip software, and chip it later to optimize the power.

[Snobol4]

I am very late to this discussion, but your conversation seems related to something I am after. I have a 911 3.2 Carrera no cat in UK. For the DME I have found more than one EPROM binary, both relating to the 261 200 078. They are the 1267355357 and 1267355211. There may also be others. The EPROM conents of my DME seem non-original and is corrupt, so I need to replace. My question is - what is the "best original" binary file to use for performance, considering modern E5/10 fuel?

Thanks

Nick

[Por_sha911]

I can't answer your question about what file to use for performance but be advised that ethanol fuel doesn't have the same power as pure gasoline so the factory programing is looking for a little more power than the fuel can deliver (think less calories).

Also, IF you are new to Porsche then please let me share my opinion that our air cooled 3.2 cars were not setup for ethanol and it can cause issues with seals and other components in the fuel system. If you can't get fuel without ethanol then research fuel additives that can protect your system.

THere is a lot to learn about our air cooled cars. Do the research.

Oh, BTW, welcome to Pelican! There is a wealth of knowledge that you can find in old posts.

[Geneman]

Plus all those power estimates (reported from the factory) are measured at the flywheel....not the wheels. So considerably less ( 10-15%) at the wheels....due to drivetrain losses... thats my understanding at least.... I had an 88 3.2 G50 USA coupe , totally stock ... and using the "butt dyno" , it did not feel like 217 plus....