Sunroof beading help!

[DemianM]

Hi everyone! I am having my headliner installed on saturday. While looking up one part on the parts catalog, I noticed a "sunroof beading" part 911 564 465 00 which is available from our host. Unfortunately, I cannot tell for sure if this part goes under the headliner, or over it (dont think so). I dont recall seeing it when I took the old one apart for repainting. According to PET, it goes in the edge of the attached picture.

Where do I put it, and, is it necessary???

Thanks in advance for the help!!
Demian

[Slanski62]

I believe there are two pieces. One goes on the edge of the sunroof panel and the other goes on the sunroof opening. I think the front piece goes on the panel and the rear goes on the opening. Others may know for sure.

[DemianM]

Thanks for the reply! I am not talking about the 2 felt seals which can be seen on the sunroof from outside, this beading seems to be installed between the metal and the headliner fabric on the sunroof lower opening...but I am not very sure about this !!

[Steam Driver]

I too have beading you speak of and I can find no corresponding part on my car (1982 SC) even though it was a recommended part. Same with this felt strip thing. I don't know where it goes either!

Felt strip is about an inch wide, as wide as the roof (more or less), and about 1/4-inch thick and has a peel-off, self-adhesive back iron it.

[gomezoneill]

Originally Posted by Steam Driver

I too have beading you speak of and I can find no corresponding part on my car (1982 SC) even though it was a recommended part. Same with this felt strip thing. I don't know where it goes either!

Felt strip is about an inch wide, as wide as the roof (more or less), and about 1/4-inch thick and has a peel-off, self-adhesive back iron it.

The felt goes on top of the liner under the headliner on the front and back. I don't know about the beading.




the photo shows where the felt strips go there are 3 total 1 in the front one in the middle one in the rear. The black fabric is not the headliner it goes under the headliner for backing.

[theenico]

The beading goes on the metal opening before the headliner. It builds up the edge so the headliner doesn't have such a harsh transition.

[gomezoneill]

Originally Posted by theenico

The beading goes on the metal opening before the headliner. It builds up the edge so the headliner doesn't have such a harsh transition.

Excellent thanks.

[DemianM]

Originally Posted by theenico

The beading goes on the metal opening before the headliner. It builds up the edge so the headliner doesn't have such a harsh transition.

Thanks!!

[DemianM]

Originally Posted by gomezoneill

The felt goes on top of the liner under the headliner on the front and back. I don't know about the beading.




the photo shows where the felt strips go there are 3 total 1 in the front one in the middle one in the rear. The black fabric is not the headliner it goes under the headliner for backing.

I was definitely also missing this felt strips!!! thanks for the heads up!!

[Steam Driver]

Thanks for the good info guys!

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by theenico

The beading goes on the metal opening before the headliner. It builds up the edge so the headliner doesn't have such a harsh transition.

An old thread, but no need to make a new one.

As theenico wrote above, the rubber beading/piping is installed directly on the metal sunroof opening. The factory used some sort of cloth tape to hold it in place.

My questions are as follows:

1. What sort of tape might be suitable for this job?
2. In addition to tape, or perhaps instead of tape, how about using 3M gasket adhesive to hold the beading in place?

This the the beading sold by our host:




For additional clarity: the beading goes directly on the metal edge here, was originally taped in place, then the headliner gets stretched around it and glued.

[Jonny042]

I'd use the 3M adhesive shown below (or some other equivalent European sourced contact adhesive). Use the same stuff to glue in your new headliner, and the seals. The contact adhesive works great on the rubber sunroof seal that's glued ant the rearmost portion of the sunroof.

From the following thread:

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1174676-tech-topic-sunroof-seal-replacement.html#post12421388

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Hello all,

I've been meaning to post this for a while, I've had people ask me about installing seals on their shiny new sunroof panels and took some pics while I was doing some on the Rot Rod.

It's by no means an exhaustive set of instructions but at least might give a few hints. It's not a terrible job, but let's face it, you are GLUING parts of you car together... welcome to 1950's technology that somehow lived well into the 90's on these cars! Let's call it "charm"?

Part numbers for your shopping pleasure:



Don't buy these from Porsche (unless you are a shareholder?) the aftermarket ones from our host fit and work just fine, thank you.

You need some glue, too. This is basically contact cement in a spray form. You want 3M 08090, buy it by number to be sure you are getting the right stuff. The name seems to be mutable:





If you haven't worked with contact cement before you are in for a treat. This gets applied to BOTH parts you want to become permanently attached to each other. Then you let it dry until it's tack free and not sticky. Yes, really. You can take your sweet time, carefully applying it in exactly the places you want it, while carefully keeping it off the parts you don't. Mask, and mask some more:



I like to use an acid brush (I buy them 100 at a time from the evil empire) trimming them to length can add to your control:



The orientation and location of the seals (and the way they interface at the rear corners) is best modelled as closely as possible to the seals you removed (old seal shown here):



I like to tape the seals to my work table so the glue doesn't get everywhere, and you don't end up sticking yourself to the seal, etc. Don't be shy with the glue. Which is contrary advice to being careful not to get it all over then place:



Clean them with something first. I like wax and grease remover for such things and it's usually within arms reach:



To be continued:

[evan9eleven]

Thanks Jon! I saw that thread, great info there.

I have the 3M weatherstrip adhesive you recommend, as well as another one from 3M called 1099 Nitrile High Performance Plastic Adhesive. I called 3M and they recommended that one specifically for stuff like the headliner and carpets. I've tested it bonding headliner, carpet and leather scraps to a piece of steel, and man is it strong stuff! Only available on the pro market.

Anyway, the beading on the sunroof opening under the headliner is what I'm wondering about. It may be sufficient to only glue it; or both glue it and tape over it. The factory only taped it with the aforementioned cloth tape, but I'm wondering if taping it is overkill. If not, I'm wondering what tape to use. Gut feeling says glue it and move on.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

Thanks Jon! I saw that thread, great info there.

I have the 3M weatherstrip adhesive you recommend, as well as another one from 3M called 1099 Nitrile High Performance Plastic Adhesive. I called 3M and they recommended that one specifically for stuff like the headliner and carpets. I've tested it bonding headliner, carpet and leather scraps to a piece of steel, and man is it strong stuff! Only available on the pro market.

Anyway, the beading on the sunroof opening under the headliner is what I'm wondering about. It may be sufficient to only glue it; or both glue it and tape over it. The factory only taped it with the aforementioned cloth tape, but I'm wondering if taping it is overkill. If not, I'm wondering what tape to use. Gut feeling says glue it and move on.

I'd actually avoid taping it, I think - there's a chance the tape would get in the way of what you're trying to achieve. I'd say go with the glue.

I checked out the 1099 on the 3M website and it does seem like it has promise - I'd do a back to back test using it as a contact adhesive (as in, glue/wait 5 or 10 mins/assemble mode) and compare it to the 08090 for performance when gluing the headliner material to the painted steel. Reading between the lines on the 1099 TDS it says that bond strength will rely on the porosity of the materials bonded. What to make of that I'm not sure.

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

I'd actually avoid taping it, I think - there's a chance the tape would get in the way of what you're trying to achieve. I'd say go with the glue.

I checked out the 1099 on the 3M website and it does seem like it has promise - I'd do a back to back test using it as a contact adhesive (as in, glue/wait 5 or 10 mins/assemble mode) and compare it to the 08090 for performance when gluing the headliner material to the painted steel. Reading between the lines on the 1099 TDS it says that bond strength will rely on the porosity of the materials bonded. What to make of that I'm not sure.

A little update here. I took your suggestion and opted for glue only on the beading. I also decided to use the 08090 on this job, and I'll tell you why.

First off, this job can't be done with using the glue as contact adhesive, by letting the parts tack up before assembly. The reason being, that the beading has a u-shaped profile that must be fit over the metal edge of the opening:





Because of this profile you can't just stick it together, the beading must be coaxed over the edge, and that simply can't be done if the parts have already gotten tacky. 1099 is far too gooey in this application regardless, but the 08090 is sufficiently runny, so I installed the beading with wet adhesive so I would have time to coax the gasket open and over the edge.

I said many bad words doing this job. The beading is fiddly and not simple to slip over the edge, and since the glue is wet, the gasket doesn't stay put. A mess was made. If I were to do this again, I would proceed as follows:

1. Fully install the beading DRY in the opening. Do not cut the excess.
2. Pull a small middle section of beading maybe 5-10cm off the edge, load it with glue and stick it back over the edge again.
3. Go do something else until the next day.
4. Now glue up the rest in the same manner.

The job will still suck doing it this way, and the corners are hard to get to sit nicely. They will have the tendency to pull away and you'll find yourself re-installing the beading over and over while trying not to get glue in all the wrong places.

After the glue set up the beading looked good and it was easy to get the headliner to wrap nicely around it.




.

[Jonny042]

So THIS is why the factory held the beading on with tape!, temporarily, until the headliner was bonded around the edge.

[acj47]

does anyone have any experience how the sunroof frame works if you cover it in the new headliner and forget / didn't know about the (2) felt strips? I found this thread about a week after wrapping the new vinyl around the sunroof frame and thus either I need to 'live with it' without the felt strips, or order a new headliner kit and re-do the sunroof frame with felt strips... thanks!