supplying parts for service: bad form?
 

to follow up on one other thread, is it considered to be bad form to bring parts (for instance, bought from our host) to an independent shop and pay them to install them? I have done this, and didn't get a complaint from the shop (maybe because they knew Pelican or were too polite to comment). Opinions?

Don't expect any warranty on the job if you do.

Bad form in general I think unless you are a really good customer. Shops mark-up parts alot to increase their profits. The suggested retails from World-pac and other distributors on some of the parts they supply 'wholesale' to shops is three times or more what they are selling it for. You aren't going to make friends by cutting down on a shop's margin on large profit items. That said, Pelican is often quite competitive with World-pac on older Porsche parts.

I would trust the mechanics choice, especially if it will affect my warranty. I'm starting a major tune up as soon as I get the parts from our host, then I'll turn it over to JWs shop for the fine tuning & valve adjustment. I hope to learn to do it myself, but need a reference point.

In the m/c shop I'm associated with, our Service Manager would politely tell you to Go to Hell! Our shop does not exist by just selling labor.

We are friendly to DIY'ers, who need parts, however.

Do you bring eggs to a diner and tell them how to cook them?

If you get sick after eating the eggs.....

"well you supplied the eggs"

Most mechanics will only warranty labor if you supply your own parts.

It also depends on your relationship with the mechanic!!! I I were a mechnic and you as a first time customer came in with a box of parts for me to install, Id have to quote you a high price, and stress the guarantee is only for the installtion..

Interesting. I replied on another thread about refferals. This has a similarity as well. My motto: I don't sell what I don't install and I don't install what I don't sell. (We're talking replacement windows here, BTW.) Many shops (like Andial) will sell parts. I don't know of many that just sell labor. BUT, if you find a used part and want it installed, like a strut or A-arm, I don't see why not. No warranty, nosiree.

I think in general it is definitely frowned upon by most shops. But I think there are exceptions. My mechanic allows me to bring in parts when they are generally unavailable. Also, I give my mechanic enough work at full fare that he doesn't mind the occasional job of labor only. I think it really just depends on your relationship with the mechanic.

that is the only explaination.........................

Piece of cake then...I've got this whole relationship thing *wired*.

Oh wait...

When I had a BMW 535i, I used to take it to a specialist BM Shop and they would always try to pull my pants down on things like airflow meters (vane type) and fuel pumps. I asked for a ballpark price and then tackled the job myself for about a third of the cost. They were talking around US$1,500 for a Bosch vane-type airflow meter!! :mad: Plus installation!! I bought one myself (new) for around US$350. That's just friggin' greedy. Just be sure to ask what it's likely to cost before waving your hand dismissively "oh, well... if it needs it..."

However, our family friend/911 mech (retired Porsche shop owner) is a joy to work with. He even invites me up to spanner on the car if I have free time while he teaches me about the car and we tackle the job together.

In the Philadelphia area there are plenty of good Porsche shops, and I have had experience with most of them. What made me stick with mine is the relationship I have developed with the owner/mechanic. I treat him with respect and he does the same with me.

This spring, when I took my car in for an oil change, he let me work under my car while he had it up on the lift. I kept out of his way and he was happy to chat while he worked. He even let me bring my own oil and filter. But, I also don't nickle and dime him when it's time for major work. He charges actual time only and his parts prices are fair.

My feelings are known. If I do bring the parts to my wrench (as I have when I was unable to complete the install), it is clear that there is no warranty but the labor charge is the same. I usually tell the wrench to add a bit fto cover his lost profit. Most of them have been kind enough to not add a "corkage" fee since they are decling to warranty the work.

It comes down to your relationship.

Also, with the shops I deal with, I will occasionally ask for a bit of help on a DIY to keep me from doing something stupid (think of JW's advice here). I feel this is part of the relationship as well.

To the best of my knowledge, the closest "vintage" type specialist shop to me, doesn't really specialize only on air-cooled engines. I once asked the manager if I could supply my own clutch (Sachs), he responded they warrant only their own parts. OK with me. The reason I asked, was ignorance about the shift coupler adjustment at the time (thought it was the clutch).

At a later date, I inquired about installation of a cv-boot, the receptionist returned my call with an ambiguous statement mainly about labor charge. So instead I drove 120 miles both ways for cv-boot/joint parts from a Porsche dealer, drove back and took them to the local Monro dealer, they installed the part I brought, AND, I tipped them above the installation cost.

The nearest air-cooled Porsche, VW shop that I know of is about 40 miles away, the nearest dealer 60 miles. (thus a total 120 mile drive both ways). This has been good though, as I am learning to DIY on projects, and am grateful to this board for advice and parts.

Co worker brought his porsche to his mechanic to have the CDI box replace with a permatune. Mechanic charged him $1200.00 for the box plus $300.00 to put it in. Doidn't have the heart to tell him that he got rip-off big time.

Depends on the part. Parts for premier suppliers like Elephant, Smart Racing, etc, I have no problem. OEM parts I would not buy somewhere lese and have them install. But then again, I never take my car to a mechanic except if I can't figure out a problem. Them I will pay them for the part. Mind you this has only happened once.

We have a very cool shop here in Michigan. They allow you to bring in your own parts however they tack on a percentage. I think it is 10% or something. I think they will warranty the part if they approve it as well. They also will let you rent out bays and do work, you can start projects and have them finish them to save you cash. Really cool place! However they are not cheap!

I had John Walker do a bunch of work on my car a while back. While the car was apart I brought him a shift coupler that I had purchased and never got around to installing and asked John to. Being the stand-up guy that he is, John did but I felt guilty and would not feel comfortable doing it again.

Parts, Labour... just give me a fair price and dont gouge me / take advantage of the situation... thats all I ask.

Whats that old saying: fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me?

For Porsche service its: fool me once, and Im not bringing the car back to you or recommend you to anyone else. Fool me twice, and I deserve it cause Im stupid enough to come back for more.

Let me put my spin on this.

Many of the shops don't like us, primarily because we (and myself personally) are educating people on how to fix their own cars. In addition to the marketshare we've snagged from larger competitors, we've also created a new breed of customer - the people who would normally have paid $450 for a valve adjustment, but now do it themselves with a $10 tool.

That said, the shops that gouge people for parts shouldn't get your business. If their prices on parts are not close to ours, then they are making way too much $$$ on the parts. The suggested list price is often 400% higher than the cost of the parts, and is often meaningless to any of us located "in the real world." I really don't shed any tears for shops that have lost a customer when they tried to charge $1200 for a $300 part.

-Wayne

I find the antagonistic attitude towards shops interesting. Yes we all know of bad shop stories, but I'll bet that we know of many other business stories where we go back for lack of choice. Instead of telling me that "they started it", why not look at the realities of shop ownership, respect the fact that they are in business for reasons other than groveling at the feet of hobbyist enthusiasts and then get down on your hands and knees and thank Heaven that you live in America where you can vote with you dollars or even screw up your own car if you need to...

AMEN Wayne!

IMO, if you want business, you act professional and treat others like you want to be...when I do outside consulting work, I have no problem with a clients given choices on hardware/software just as long as it's Dell/IBM/Compaq/HP/Gateway, etc. If it's a cheap "whitebox" that is possibly a piece of crap, well then that I may have an issue with, but generally, I stay away from these situations...

Likewise, if I bring a dealer a quality part, install it, if I bring you some crap, well that's different...

The automotive service industry needs a kick in the pants like the technology one got long ago...no longer can the IT giants like IBM, Compaq take advantage of customers b/c of Dell and Gateway...

Pelican Parts just may be the Dell in the industry ;)

I think there are some issues other than just price. I'm all for shops making a decent profit, and like to find places that are good and fair (TRE comes to mind). But I also want to be educated about my car, and feel somewhat a part of the process. I unfortunatley don't have the tools or the time (or talent/experience) to do a much work on my car at home. But I can do a lot of reading and source quality parts. I also like what Pelican is about, and want to support them.

So the choices are to just drop the car off at the shop and say "fix it", then come back and pay. Or I can buy stuff from Pelican and do (screw it up) it myself. Seems that people are intimating that there isn't any middle ground...

What is needed for this middle-ground area between DIY and DIFM is a good mobile technician available to do those jobs not requiring a lot of shop equipment (lifts, etc.); maybe a retired tech. ; maybe not too many people interested in this line of work; maybe local regs.

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

I don't think I would do it. But, if I took my car in for repair and they estimated a high price on parts, I wouldn't hesitate to refer them to a lower cost alternative. I haven't found a major difference on parts from what I can buy to what a shop would charge me. I guess it depends on where you are taking your car.

So far, I've only bought parts for service I planned to do myself.

I was at a local "euro" shop the other day asking questions and trying to determine if they would be a good alternative for me if I need a shop. They were great until they started talking about the tensioner upgrade. They said it cost about $1000 to do it and the parts were $700. I said "that must come with new idlers" - no the kit doesnt come with new idlers". I thought 100% mark on the tensioner upgrade kit was a little steep!! (Pelican sells them for around $350).

I continued talking to the owner because he did his own machine work in house and they took me for a tour of the machine shop. I asked if they will only use "std. std." cranks in a rebuild. "Oh no you can grind them down - all sorts of bearing sizes available"!! I said thanks and left, I dont think I want my $10K rebuild there!!!

Great guys though would use them for some stuff.


Sorry guess I got a little off topic.:-))

My Porsche mechanic is actually a full time BMW wrench these days, at an independent shop that ALLOWS him to work on Porsches on his own (weekend) time there. I KNOW that is pretty unusual, but this shop belongs to a really great guy, and this way he permits my wrench to make enough supplemental to keep house and hearth together.
All this is a long way around to saying that I ALWAYS buy my parts first, he only charges me a flat hourly rate. Plus Pizza and beer when the going gets tough...:D

No-static, this topic looks familar...
I have no problem with shops making a resonable profit, but some are too high. When your choices of shops are small, and they know it, then you have to become creative. I love doing my own work, but I also know my limitations.
I use shop parts when I think the cost is reasonable, but even my mechanic has said some of the parts are way cheaper in the US (I'm in Canada) so I supply some and he supplies some.
This is a one off thing as most all of the other work I do myself.
BTW I send the shop alot of business, so they shouldn't be too upset.

And yes if I could I would bring my own steak to a restaurant and get them to cook it, but I'd be worried they spit on it :D

In my experience there are really two kinds of folks that get into the business to wrench on 30+ year old cars... For love, or for money.. not very many of the former left, unfortunately...:(

The way I look at it when you are paying for the mechanics time you are taking care of the cost of doing business for the company.

Their "per hour price" charge should reflect the cost of the mechanics wage, along with the cost for doing business "overhead and profit".

A garage can make much more $$ if they quote you a price for making repairs. As an example if they quote you $600 to do a valve adjustment
which is labor intense and do it in four hours that equates to $150.00 per hr. The mechanic is probably making $30.00 per hr so the rest go towards OH/Profit.

Steve

"A Porsche does more then just go fast in a straight line"

I recently "found" a new mechanic. He charged me $260 for a valve adjustment, new gaskets etc. This was well worth it to me...because my time is valuable to me. The valve adjustment is a PITA and rather than monkey around with it trying to get it done right... the mechanic did a beautiful job for me.

Also, he is a cool guy and did a couple of extra things for me at no charge. One of them was to remove a stripped 915 filler plug. In addition, his advice on another issue I was having was valuable.

Those are the kinds of things that we, as customers look for from mechanic: cool guy, doesnt overcharge, willing to work with you and is not looking to screw you.

Today, I got an envelope on my car while at the Beach. A different shop in the area, was soliciting business from Porsche owners. While I appreciate his letter and "15% discount" written on top... I cant say I would use him....because I already found a mechanic that I know i can trust.

My mechanic is competent and nice to deal with. I've never had to have them fix the same problem twice. Recently, my WUR went out and they quoted me $560 for a new one. I pointed out that they were $320 on Pelican. He matched the pelican price just like that. Amazing. Anyway I never quibble over labor and I do want him in business next year and the year after that. But I do look at his quotes a little more carefully now.

I wish I was more of a DIY guy, but the reality is that I'm not (at least for now).