'68 Electrical/Wiring questions

[dotorg]

It appears like someone has made a huge mess of the wiring in my 911 at some point in the past. I have a few questions from those who've got '68's about a few things:

1) Do your brake/reverse lights work with the car off? (mine don't)
2) What position are each of the spots in your ignition key? (ie, radio, off, on, start?)
3) Does your blower run with the car off? (mine does -- there doesn't appear to be any difference between "off" and "radio".
4) Do you have a little toggle switch to the left of the cigarette lighter? (I do, and it makes a sound somewhere in the car, but I can't figure out where and what its doing)
5) Where is your fog light switch? (mine is all the way on the left, a switch that sure looks stock but isn't where the manual says it should be)

I'm starting to think I got a really bad deal on this car Without comparing it to another car, I can't tell for sure, but the more I futz with the wiring in here, the more I think someone in the past rewired almost the entire car and did it poorly. (For example, most of the wires are black, and I can't imagine the car left the factory with the tangled mess of wires this seems to have)

[911pcars]

I feel for you. This is a by-product of our DIY mentality - and usually electrical wiring is at the low end of the DIY skill level.

If it helps, here are some early 911 electrical wiring diagrams which are themselves a piece of work to follow (but better than nothing).

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[304065]

The diagrams are available on the pelican main page.

I have spent hundreds of hours reworking the electrical system in my 911E and would offer the following advice:

1. The diagram is your friend. Everything can be traced out if you have patience, at first it looks like a bunch of spaghetti but after working with it for a while you realize the engineers at Porsche did a pretty good job of designing it.

2. Always, always use the same color wire to replace burnt or missing factory stuff. I actually went to the trouble to get original german wire, red with a black stripe, from the folks at www.ynzyesterdaysparts.com. If you are contemplating a total restoration, they actually make complete wiring harnesses, concours quality, as original. I've even seen them complimented by Kevin at Gunnar Racing. Ditto the brass "faston" connectors and rubber insulation, these are just like the factory did, not some cheapie aluminum terminals with a plastic crimp.

3. The wiring harness can be cleaned off with lacquer thinner, often wires get painted over.

Not having a '68 handy anymore I can't give you specific advice. I have some pictures of a 67 s from a concours at home, I'll check them to see if they illustrate anything.

Good luck!

[dotorg]

Ooo thanks, thats a great resource.

The car isn't in a condition worth worrying about concours quality anything, but its useful to know I can get factory colored wires and connectors that actually fit correctly from there!

Call it blasphemy but I'd rip it all out and do it myself before I could justify $1600 for a new wiring harness

[joehahn]

if you want i will take pics and email for comparisons?

i suck at electrical stuff so no help there but I am actually holding in my hand as we speak my "color coded wiring diagram" for our cars. this thing is wasted on me and has been sitting next to my desk here at work since i bought it online let me see....label says....sept 25, 2001!!! GOD am i spineless when it comes to electrics...

joe 68 L

[dotorg]

Heh, I shot a picture of the wiring in my car to post last night and ended up not bothering... I can't see most of the original colors anyway, because it looks like when my car was painted from white to mexico blue, they didn't tape up any of the wires. I was fixing my turn signals last night and I had the choice of blue, blue or blue wires in the light buckets.

It looks like someone did the same with black paint in the trunk. Wires up in the dash have color, but around the fuse panel, its just a tangled mess of black wires, and a few bright wires where I can see what the mechanic who rebuilt the motor had done stuff (wiring for the new fuel pump, etc).

I'm going to try the suggestion to use lacquer thinner to get the paint off them. My biggest concern right now is figuring out why "off" isn't "off"... its possible its just the blower wired up to the wrong circuit, or it might be a bad switch. I can't test the radio because the guy the PO bought it from had aparently tried to install a stereo with very little understanding how they get wired up. I'm in the process of removing all that stuff.

Frustrating but fun. I just have to make sure it occupy so much time my girlfriend gets pissed.

[1yearonLy]

I'm not ignoring my '68 brethren I just haven't had the chance to go through that stuff yet. My wiring does seem ok from what I've seen.

My ignition switch sits in there a bit more flush than I think it should but the functions/positions match the manual.

I didn't know I had a blower. I better look into that..

Reverse lights work with key off? Never looked. Nor do I know about the brake lights.

This weekend I'll play a little and see if I can't draw some conclusions.

[B D]

One by one:

1. Brake lights don't work with car off, reverse lights never work (my problem)

2. Key positions: radio, off, on, start

3. I don't think the blower works with the key off, I'll check later. Anyways the blower is a joke, just open a window.

4. No toggle switch, check if your car can start with it on and off, or is it a switch for power attena maybe seen those in older cars?

5. Mine is in the middle of the dash with the hazards and blower, not on the left.

'68 brethren

I like that!

[1yearonLy]

We've got to stick together with this '68 thing!

[joehahn]

i agree, i recall we talked about getting a little group together to compare notes + reference etc but we didn't follow thru. we really should now that our numbers have grown. who will take the lead??? as you can see...i can barely type so my computer skills are lacking. i know i get a few megabytes of bandwith thru earthlink i could set something up there?

[1yearonLy]

I have some time this weekend. What kinds of things are tryng to nail down? Once we have a list I'll snap some pics and post them. I imagine each of us will have a grab bag of odd things we'll want to share but what about the basics.

[joehahn]

i don't kow? maybe as simple as a list of emails strung together so we can throw out a question here and there when needed. for example, and this is apropo for this "electrical" post... could someone go out and pull their flasher relay (looks like tiny 2 inch coke can by the fusebox) and read me what it is..who makes it? my right turn signal has NEVER worked since i owned the car. it may be a ground but the various $3 flashers i have installed over the years all do different thing....

joe 68 L

[1yearonLy]

Mine works and I'll check it when I get home. The right blinker starts normally but after a few seconds it slows way down. Only that right one, the left one is fine.

[dotorg]

Originally posted by joehahn
i don't kow? maybe as simple as a list of emails strung together so we can throw out a question here and there when needed. for example, and this is apropo for this "electrical" post... could someone go out and pull their flasher relay (looks like tiny 2 inch coke can by the fusebox) and read me what it is..who makes it? my right turn signal has NEVER worked since i owned the car. it may be a ground but the various $3 flashers i have installed over the years all do different thing....

joe 68 L

Easy enough: 1968 911L Yahoo group

How's that? Place to post information, links and photos that would be easier to dig through than the huge archives on here and rennlist.

[B D]

This sounds like a great idea, my biggest problem is when I post (from work, lets keep that low profile) my car is not next to me so I have to go by memory. I am working right now actually to build a 911L site for my car, I have the all the tools and the skills I just need more content. Would you guys like to feature your cars on the site, I was just going to show off my car but maybe we could have 911L site with technical information, specifications, a registery maybe, and sometype of forum (email list)?

I'll check on the flasher relay when I get in the car, mine works great but it just hangs there loose got a pic of where it should be?

[dotorg]

People surf these sites from places other than work?

[joehahn]

wow, these are great ideas! B. D. I really like your idea because you and I have the eact same car! I'm in: here is another guy that did same for some sportos...check it out;

http://www.wheelerfolk.org/stuff/Default.htm

let's definitely stay with this this time (and check your flasher relays for me)

[1yearonLy]

I'd be up for that. It would be the only 911L group site period. And if we add pics and keep it current it'll be the standard.

That Sportomatic site is very cool, I like the way it has bits and pieces of everything along with pictures.

On the weekends I have no way of uploading pics and don't spend much time on the computer but I do have access if needed.

I like this idea.

[B D]

Great I'll keep working away to get it set up! My paln is to have a main page (built with frames) with general info and a left hand nav to drill down to these sections: owners section, technical info, history, old literature and images, and then finally usefull links. I will probably have a basic site hopefully by next weekend, I am in SoCal and the weather is nice and I rather drive than type. Does any one have experience/access with photoshop to create nice some site images, I only have access to it at work?

I love that sporto site all the old ads and writes ups is what impressed me.

And Joe I will definitley include any sporto info I can dig up.

[1yearonLy]

I only have limited Photoshop knowledge and a limited version ofm the program here at work. Sounds like we'll need a art/techie guy to pull off the site imagery. I do have the 1968 brochure and those magazine ads.

Ready to roll...

I've been collecting '68 911L pics as I've been going for reference so once we're up and running I can add stuff. It'll be great to have our own area.