Need DE 911 and 930 opinions

[JoeF]

I have been to a few DEs recently and plan to do alot more.
I have been using a lightenend 911SC that aside from a roll cage, is very much stock. I love the SC but find that I am at the point that I need a bit more power and a few modifications to progress.
I am extremely comfortable in the SC but find myself pushing it a bit too hard.
I have access to a 930, but I really do not know if using the 930 at a DE is the right thing to do. I understand that it takes a great deal of skill to drive a 930 at speed and its an easy car to get in trouble with. I am not sure I should attempt it now, or even after a few more DEs.
I am sure that it would take a large amount of cash to modify the SC in parts alone so I dont know if thats the way to go either.

I would like any observations or suggestions about:
-Upgrading the SC for DE use.
-what upgrades to do and in what order.
-buying a slighly newer/ upgraded car for DE.
-using the 930 at DE. Good idea / Bad idea?
-modifications to 930 to make it more driveable.
Thanks, JoeF

[chuckr]

Did you happen to read last months Excellence ?
Fantastic article on a track prepped SC Smart Racing did the set up
930's do not make good DE cars... too expensive and too hard on the motor and the brakes.

[Lothar]

Joe,

Here's my $0.02 worth. I just bought an SC for DE and time trials. I'm sure there are many who will chime in and agree with me when I say that you don't need more power if your goal is to become a better driver. I purchased my car with a few mods and in need of a few more.

Here's what it had when I bought it:

fresh motor and trans
headers and Supertraps
Fiberglass front bumper w/ oil cooler opening and brake cooling ducts.
Mocal front oil cooler
Cool brakes kit
Sparco Pro 2000 seats w/ 5 pt harnesses
Safety Devices full cage
fresh set of street tires on ROH 16" wheels

Here's what I'm doing to it:

22mm front / 30mm rear torsion bars
22mm front and rear TRG adjustable sway bars
Bilstein Sport shocks and struts
Pagid Orange brake pads and frozen sloted rotors
Longacre Hot Lap timer.
Strut tower brace and truss
Fuchs 7 and 9 X 16" for track tires.
Car will be lowered, bump steer corrected and corner balanced
track allignment
Fiberglass rear bumper

This makes the car PCA Class G compliant for the most part. The wheels at 9" in the rear is a bit dicey but I don't plan on club racing the car anyway.

I had most of the parts already, so I'm only paying for labor on the suspension mods. With parts and labor, the suspension alone would be about $5K. The car is now a dedicated track car and I can sell it to someone who wants to race G class if I need to bail for some emergency.

The suspension will be done in the next two weeks. I may run street tires for the remainder of this season and buy track tires for Spring 2004.

The rest of my money will be spent on the most important mod: making a better driver. I plan 6-8 track days between now and the end of the year. I would like to do 10 to 12 next year.

I would suggest that you will progress the most for the least amount of money by staying with the SC as is and doing a lot of DE's.

[ted]

Race the 930 when you have more experiance and a deeper race budget.

Your SC will make a great DE car.

Consider some custom valved shocks with those stiffer T bars.
I felt the Yellow sport shocks had too much compression and to little rebound to control the 21/30 T bars.

This set up is best with R rated tires like Victor racers.

In warmer climates a front oil cooler and on higher speed corners a front spoiler, rear wing aero package adds confidence too.
Other goodies, cool shirt, video camera, hot lap timer, race seat with 5 points, 4 point roll bar, brake bias. Does the list ever end?

My street/track car specs are very similar,check here

[304065]

Hey Joe

This may come across as completely counterintuitive but power is the last thing you want if your goal is to become a better driver. Power compensates for weaknesses in technique. For example, there was a guy who finished right behind me in our race at Watkins Glen, who had the same lap time as I did, except he was TWO classes down from me, driving a 69 911T. He's got 110 HP to pull around his 2194# car, and I have 155 HP to haul around 2249#. But the reason we had the same times is that he's a better driver.

[briankeithsmith]

I personally love tracking my 930, but as people have mentioned, it gets expensive with the turbo.

As far as hard to drive, mine doesn't seem to difficult, you just have to remain conscious of where you are in the powerband to make sure you don't hit boost too quickly.

Brian

[JoeF]

Lothar,
Thanks for your help! Your car sounds great!
For me to upgrade my car to the point you describe as 'how you bought the car', it would cost major dollars! By the way, I think if my car was at that point, I would probably stop upgrading there.
Roughly, I wont hold you to it, what do you think it would cost to to upgrade the stock SC to your starting point, and then to you planed ending point? Please let me know how much of the work you are doing yourself.
I am trying to determine what would be cheaper, upgrade the SC or buy something else.
Thanks,JoeF

[John Brandt]

The best driver I've ever ridden with has a '79 SC that He's been tracking since '81

His Buddies in 930/993/996's can just barely keep up!

[rattlsnak]

I had an SC that started out bone stock and and then progressed all the way up to a GT3 car, then I switched to a Turbo car, and went all the way up to GT1. I can tell you now, you need to check your wallet and decide how much money you want to spend and then bulid the best car for that money. You do not want to keep trickling money into the SC if you know yourself and your gonna end up wanting more and more. It never ends. After everything I did to the SC, it still wasnt "fast enough". You will get used to the power and want more. Same thing with the turbo. After a couple of years, it just wasnt enough. Of course I could have spent another $25K or so to make it into a Cup car or such. Trust me, know your money limits and go that route. Take it from someone whos been there!

[hobieboy]

I also love tracking my 930 but to put things into perspective, either car won't be good for DE after a certain point UNLESS you also upgade suspension, tires, alignment, etc. as others mentioned to improve on factory handling which is geared for street driving.

So whether you would upgrade to 930 or not, if you are convinced you have outgrown the handling of a bone stock SC, you will have to spend $$$ on any bone stock cars you buy to make it handle better IMHO.

If you really want to get into big horsepower one day, then the 930 is to me a better starting point. Yes its expensive but probably equally so (or more?) if you want same kind of horsepower increase on a NA car

[JoeF]

John,
I agree skill is better than power. I think power upgrades might be at the very bottom of my upgrade list. I am wondering am I better off buying something with better brakes, better suspension, better cooling, than trying to put that into the SC. I am kind of looking at the whole package thing.
JoeF

[ted]

Sold recently for about 35k,
SC wide body with a 3.6.
Places in the top 3 at our events.
Nice 80%-track/ 20%-street car.

Yes it is cheaper to buy them sorted and proven.
Just not so easy to knock down 35k on short notice when cars like this become available.
Besides then you start thinking for a little over 65k I might be able to find a used factory race car.

Nothing wrong with slowly developing your own car on the monthly plan.

[350HP930]

Skill, lag, cost and other issues aside, I usually always find myself beating all the other 911s I compete against.

I think the cost of ownership and the difficulty of power management are the only two legitimate complaints against the 930.

Having too much power and superior brakes and suspension in a 2700 pound car usually more than makes up for it.

[Amac]

JoeF,
I track a 930, mostly DE's.
If in deed power is your goal, a 930 is the ride.
But there is a learning curve, 930's are a handfull
even more so with a few mod's.
You may not want a 500hp+ race motor, but this
is my susp. set up.
23/30mm Tbars
23mm Sbars
Bilstein sport front/back
Strut brace
Lowered with bump steer
Corner balanced
Wheels 9"front 13"rear
I use Hawk or Pagid brake pads