A/C opinions...

Typical Fish · Typical Fish's Garage

OK, I would like to make the most cost-efficient repairs/upgrades to the stock A/C in my car given the following conditions...

1. The system runs, but has not blown cold air since I got the car.
2. I live in SoCal, so massive amounts of blowing cold air are unnecessary.
3. I don't want to put a bunch of $$$ into it; i.e.; new compressor, etc.
4. I would be happy if I could just get somewhat cold air to come out of the center vents.

All replies welcome.

TIA.

scottb · 07-14-2003, 11:07 AM

Probably the most cost effective thing to do is convert it to R134a and have it recharged. With the non-barrier hoses, you'll have to recharge it once per year, but at least you won't be punching holes in the ozone layer by having R12 leak out.

The first step is to take it to a local a/c shop and have them leak test it. If the system generally is intact, then R134a is the simplest, and cheapest, way to go. Have no illusions, however, you'll get cool air at best, and you won't confuse your car with a meat locker, that's for sure.

Where in So Cal are you?

Typical Fish · Typical Fish's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by scottb
Have no illusions, however, you'll get cool air at best, and you won't confuse your car with a meat locker, that's for sure.

Where in So Cal are you?

Thanks for the advice. Not really looking for a meat locker; just want some semblance of cool air; more for when it rains and I have to have the top up or when I wear a tie to work.

I live in Belmont Shore, right down in Long Beach.

scottb · 07-14-2003, 11:12 AM

The guru for Porsche a/c is Performance Air in Anaheim. www.scottsind.com. Otherwise, I'm sure a local a/c shop can do an R134a conversion. The trick is to get the charge just right. Too little, or too much, and what is already a marginal system will be even worse.

If you don't mind a trip to OC, Performance is your best shot at decent a/c with R134a.

Purrybonker · 07-14-2003, 11:24 AM

I just converted my '87 to a petroleum derivative product (red-line or something like that) and it seems to work well. Apparently R134 has a much smaller molecular size than R12 and is therefore more difficult to control leakage.

The "redline" stuff is similar in molecule size to R12, or so I am told.

My conversion was only $200 CDN plus a new hose.

Ken

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

after day 2 of living in AC land, mine is working fairly well. New compressor, receiver/dryer (old one was plugged) and expansion valve, charge with Freeze12. I actually had to turn down the fan this morning while driving.

Using the AC does make the car run hotter though...

TerryBPP · 07-14-2003, 11:37 AM

My A/C guy told me that the older porche hose were not made to carry R134a. It will deteriate the hose eventually. The guy has owned more porches than I've seen so I tend to take his word for it. I stuck with the old stuff and it blows at abou 50 deg.

Typical Fish · Typical Fish's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by nostatic
Freeze12.

?????

Please elaborate.

ZCAT3 · 01:25 PM

Fish - Freeze 12 is an R-12 replacement. You can look it up on thier website - http://www.freeze-12.com. If your hoses hold pressure, this is likely the cheapest way to go for an R-12 system. I would definitely replace the receiver/drier, however. You can get a Porsche compatible receiver/drier at www.ackits.com for $18. This is the same receiver/drier that Performance Aire sells for $130 (ask me how I know).

If you are interested in the Freeze 12 route, let me know as I have a Freeze 12 charge kit I do not need and would sell cheap.

Bill

p.s. Performance Aire is the 911 AC expert, but lord are they pricey. I just upgraded my 930 AC with parts from them. I did all the work myself and learned quite a bit in the process. My 930 AC is awesome - but probably overkill at this point.

Schuey · 07-14-2003, 12:44 PM

good info guys!

scottb · 07-14-2003, 01:24 PM

Don't you need to convert to R134a before you can go to Freeze-12? Todd?

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

according to the freeze12 site, it is compatible with both R12 and 134a, but since I swapped out the guts I don't think it would have been an issue anyway.

scottb · 07-14-2003, 01:28 PM

Todd: Is your compressor set up for R12 or 134?

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

134 I think. It is a brand new Sanden (507?).

Teutonics · Teutonics's Garage

Freeze12 is 80% r134a and 20% HCFC-142b.

You can see mixture components of the different replacements here (grid towards bottom of page):

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/macssubs.html

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

If you are going thru the expense of converting to a different refrigerant I would convert to R134a. 134a is used by all the automaker and all the a/c shop handles r134a. Most a/c shops won't touch a a/c system that is not R12 or R134a because they don't want to contaminate their recovery equipment.

R134a is available at most auto part stores and you don't need a license to purchase it.

jdowty3 · jdowty3's Garage

If you want the cheapest route, I'd suggest replacing the receiver/dryer, then have the system evacuated and recharged with R134 or one of the alternatives (Freeze12, Duracool, etc.). Next would be to install a new compressor that doesn't rob as much HP when engaged. To get cooler temps, a 993 condensor unit with a fan is the best option.

yeuporsch · 07-15-2003, 01:49 PM

What is the cost of doing an A/C? Can someone list out the cost of the parts, ie., condenser/compressor/hoses/drier? Thanks.

John
72T

Jim Sims · 02:59 PM

Estimate to upgrade/refurbish:

Parts range (max DIY and ordering on-line to ready to go kits) cost:

Condenser (deck lid): $240 - $400
Compressor and brackets: $300 to $500
Barrier hoses and bead lock, bubble crimp fittings: $150 to $1200
Receiver/driers: $25 to $120
Expansion valve: $30 to $100
Misc: $50 to $125
Add more for an additional condenser(s).
Add more for labor; at least 8 hours if pulling and flushing the evaporator is included.

To do a quality upgrade/refurbish job and assuming one has access to a vacuum pump, refrigerant harness and a hose fitting crimping tool it would be difficult to do it for less than $800 to $900 (DIY) replacing the compressor, hoses, rcvr/drier and a condenser. A $2000 shop charge is not out of line if they do everything. Jim

ZCAT3 · 03:09 PM

John - I just did a full refurb on my 930 and added the belly condenser. I put in a new receiver/drier, new hoses all around, had to replace my rear condenser as it leaked, added a Performance Aire bulk head vent, and charged with R-12. The parts alone were over $1000, and I got a deal by ordering them from Imagine Auto (who got me Perofrmance Aire parts for less than Peformance Aire sells them).

I am now trying the cheap refurb method on my 87 Carrera. I am getting new lines made using the old fittings (I have the fittings from my 87 and from my 930, so hopefully I will be able to get a decent set out of them), and will put in a new receiver/drier. I will recharge with R-12 (I am told in a nicely sealed system R-12 should last 4-5 years). The Carrera AC is better than the 930 AC to start due to the large rear condenser in the Carrera.