964, 993, or Boxster?

[s_wilwerding]

I'm in the process of selling my 911SC to buy an everyday Porsche. Now, before telling me to use the SC as a daily driver, consider that I live in Omaha, where we have plenty of nasty winter weather. My budget for a new car is $25,000 - $30,000. I had originally planned to buy a Boxster with hardtop, as you can get some very nice examples in that price range.

However, something keeps drawing me back to the 911. I'm half considering getting a 964 C2 (even though a C4 would probably be better around here, their level of complexity turns me off). I'm sure, with winter tires, a 964 would get around just fine in the snow. However, I was browsing around eBay the other day, and someone had a 993 C4S for sale for $40,000. It was Zenith Blue, and though it had 60,000 miles, it was one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen. I'm not sure I could stretch that far, but hey, money's cheap, right?

What does everyone think? I'm assuming most of you won't recommend the Boxster, so could you give me some idea of what kind of 964 or even 993 I could purchase for that amount of money? Also, is maintenance cost on a 993 really high? I'm sure they are much more complex than my SC, and I would expect them to have commensurately higher maintenance costs.

Thanks for the help.

[smithH]

here in the UK maintenance on a 993 is lower than that on a 964, including consideration of 2 or 4wd.

My opinion (and it is only that) is go for the 993, the last real 991. prices here are holding, and they seem like a well sorted car. Kinda like a 3.2 compared to an SC (Opps gone and done it now). That said no doubt you would be happy with a 964.

that should get the discussion started.

[Jim Richards]

Steve, your $25-30k budget should get you a real nice 964. I'm sure you'd like the 993s, but you'll need to add about $5k to your budget. You'll also need to budget for that set of winter tires!

[JonT]

Heres another option you may have already considered--if you are planning on tracking the car, blowing your wad on the car will create more budget problems and you will worry too much about something going wrong with your car for financial reasons as well as you wont have a backup car to drive. Keep the SC and turn it into a track beast and buy a reliable daily driver. You'll be kicking yourself driving a 993/964 around in the snow and all the gravel/salt on the roads all winter too.

[Kemo]

keep the SC and get a Ford F150 or something.

[Planter91C2]

what makes you think that a boxster, 964, or 993 would be good "nasty winter cars"?

[s_wilwerding]

Here's my dilemma - I really only have room for one car. In the near future, it is going to be very difficult for me to find a place to keep an extra car. Therefore, I would like my only car to be a Porsche. I realize that some people on this board cringe at the idea of driving any Porsche in the snow, but I figure if I'm going to pay that much for a car (and insurance), I'm going to drive it everyday - I'm not in the car museum business.

An all weather everyday Porsche.....


That's not a 964. It's not a 993 either....


A 986 with a hardtop may be a better choice. Or what about a 968? It's cheap but still fairly modern with ABS, aircon etc.

[lukeh]

I bought a $1,000 Civic to get me through the Wisconsin winters. I agree with the other posts that feel any 911 is not an everyday winter car. If you like your SC keep it and buy a cheap winter car. That should save you $10-$15 thousand dollars. As far as your room for 2 cars problem, think about storing the Porsche in the winter and the beater in the summer. Im sure there are tons of places in a city your size that have availability. We may be able to give you a better idea if you could tell us why you don't have room for 2 cars. I have room for only 1 car in my garage. I store the Porsche in the garage in the winter and leave the Civic sit out if that helps. I can understand that you are not in the museum business, but when I see my Civic sitting there encrusted with salt, slush hanging from the wheel wells and a 4 foot snow drift up against the car, I just can't see subjecting my 930 to that, let alone a 993 C4S. But hey, to each there own.

[Zeke]

I wouldn't think of a Boxster as the best choice to drive in a snow storm, or even on snow in clear weather. I suppose you could get some skiiny wheels and tires to help with the traction. Rain, that's another story, let 'er rip.

[ZAMIRZ]

993 or Boxster.

[nostatic]

I'm with Daryl (that scares him, I know). Why is a 964 or 993 better than an SC in the winter?

The SC will be cheaper to maintain. Save the $15K+ difference you'd spend for the 964/993 and sock it away. Neither the 964 or 993 are "new" cars any more, and you're heading into some expensive repair years. Your SC is a known commodity that is well sorted.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by BillyPilgrim

My 115k mile ’84 is showing signs of needing a rebuild, so I’m trapped in the rebuild/ buy a lower mileage 3.2/buy a 964/save, stretch the budget for a ‘bargain’ 993 dilemma. Or scrap the whole idea and buy a 944 or BMW. I’ve actually been thinking about this for a while…
So for those of us who can’t have a separate daily driver, what’s the best 911 for the task?

Here's my take. The 964 and 993 are now getting to be older cars...I think at about the 6-10 year point you head into some serious money on replace and repair. The Carreras and SCs are now old enough to have reached a point where good solid cars have had many things replaced. A well sorted one will still cost you money, but it should be fairly predictable. With a 964/993, I think you're getting into the more unpredictable money land (ie high miles 3.6 engines).

I drive my SC every single day...the only thing I don't use it for is hauling equipment to gigs, or trips to the nursery, home depot, etc. I'm spending money on my car replacing things, but it should be a known quantity. And once things are replaced, they should be good for a good chunk of time (rotors, shocks, etc).

I think the only strike against an SC or Carrera as a daily driver is if you want more creature comforts. The 964/993 have better AC, power steering, ABS, and air bags. They also have more torque and hp. For a daily driver, I can go triple digits without problem with my lowly 180hp 3.0, so that isn't an issue with me.

It all depends on what is most important to you. I love 993s, but my SC is paid for and is well sorted. To get a 993 I'd have to spend a big chunk of money to get it ($20K+), then likely spend a few $K sorting it, then enter the repair/replace phase. The pluses of the car don't outweigh the extra $$$ for me right now. ymmv.

[s_wilwerding]

Thanks for everyone's replies. A few points:

1. There are a few people here in town who drive 911s all year. One of them drives a 964 C4, the other drives a 1977 930. Now, even I wouldn't drive a 930 in the winter, but I guess the guy gets by.

2. After looking at prices of "good" 993s, that's probably out of my price range. One can dream, though...

3. There are a good number of people on the Boxster board who drive their cars all year in places like New York and Ohio. With snow tires, Boxsters supposedly go just as well as any other car (save 4WD and AWD).

4. For all the fuss made about the snow, there are probably only 3-5 days each winter when driving is really difficult here in Omaha. Hopefully, if things work out at my present job, I will live close enough to walk to work. So, the car could stay in the garage on those 3-5 days.

5. There are people here in town who drive Mercedes, BMW, Miata, Lexus, and Acura cars all year. I fail to see how a newer Porsche is much different from any of those.

6. At present, my 911 is stored in my father's garage. However, I think he wants his spot back, so that is prompting my decision to switch to one car.

7. So, it's a tossup between a Boxster and 964. When (or if) my car sells, I'll have a decision to make.

[RSR.guy]

Steve,

All these cars are excellent choices, and all are very different in their own right. In no particular order, I offer my humble experience with the 964, Boxster and 993;

1. Boxster: Beautiful handling, amazing chassis and brakes. Great fun to drive. The relative lack of power is what would keep me from buying anything but the S variant. The soft top may not be ideal for you in winter.

2. 964: In some ways, it's my favorite later model 911. The 3.6 motor is amazing, the brakes and shifter are very crisp, the body shape is about as good as it gets, and the cars are a delight to drive. The C4 system actually works pretty darn well in low traction conditions. I should say, it works well with the right wheel/tire combo. I am always amazed at how poorly the wide tires work do in the snow. One other cautionary note on the C4; if you want to partake in track day events (or even aggressive driving) you will not get the classic 911 feel at the limit. I think you will find that the cars drive almost like a front wheel drive machine. The understeer can be a little frustrating for those of us that like to, umm, rotate under power. (although I will say that transplanting RSA suspension does help balance out the chassis).

3. 993: Tough to beat. Porsche really did a super job on the all wheel drive system, and overall the engineers worked out most of the gremlins that plagued the 964 model. The C4 offers great traction in wet conditions, but the car still feels like something you are familiar with. A C4S is a remarkable car, and the wide body is a treat to look at. Again, you will hate the stock tire/wheel setup in the snow. Porsches always look funky with narrow rims, however they really work nicely if you are going to drive in the winter. The defrost and heater controls are more than adequate, and I wouldn't hesistate to drive one every day of the year. The prices are getting attractive, huh? A 993 is probably my next car.

Anyway, go drive 'em all. I would be interested to hear what you think. Good luck!

Cheers, Chris

[nostatic]

Originally posted by BillyPilgrim
Even if a 993 cost less to maintain than an SC/Carrera, the initial cost is quite a bit higher.

But I think that the 993 will cost at least as much or more to maintain as the SC/Carrera (especially as the 993s get to be 10+ years old). So you have a higher initial cost coupled to a high maintenance cost. Not saying it isn't worth it, but I wouldn't make my choice using a financial rationalization.

Then again, a sports car isn't really a logical thing, but emotional. If a person is analytical then they'd buy something like a honda civic or toyota corolla and drive cheaply for years and years. I suppose I could do that, but I might lose what is left of my sanity as a result...

[Planter91C2]

Originally posted by s_wilwerding
Thanks for everyone's replies. A few points:



5. There are people here in town who drive Mercedes, BMW, Miata, Lexus, and Acura cars all year. I fail to see how a newer Porsche is much different from any of those.

i would not compare a porsche to the above (and i hope nostatic will agree with me ) i would compare a porsche with other sportscars which are somewhat exotic

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally posted by nostatic
But I think that the 993 will cost at least as much or more to maintain as the SC/Carrera (especially as the 993s get to be 10+ years old). So you have a higher initial cost coupled to a high maintenance cost. Not saying it isn't worth it, but I wouldn't make my choice using a financial rationalization.

Then again, a sports car isn't really a logical thing, but emotional. If a person is analytical then they'd buy something like a honda civic or toyota corolla and drive cheaply for years and years. I suppose I could do that, but I might lose what is left of my sanity as a result...

Actually, according to everyone I've talked to and consulted on the matter (my dad came very close to buying a tip 993 from a failing dot-commer who came to him for some accounting help a couple years ago) it seems as though the 993 engine will be less of a pain in the long run due to hydraulic adjusting valves and numerous other advancements made to refine the air-cooled flat six. I say if s_wilwerding can find a nicely maintained original owner garage queen then jump on it.....just make damn sure you know what you're buying and don't be afraid to pay a little more for a car that you and a reputable mechanic may feel is head and shoulders above the rest of the cars out there.

[dotorg]

A non-Porsche related comment, but you certainly don't need skinny tires for driving in the snow. I've run for three years in all kinds of crazy winter weather with my S4 (power, and traction-wise very similar to a C4, with the added "bonus" of an extra 1000lbs) using Pirelli SnowSport 240V's -- very nice V-rated winter tires. I've done performance winter driving schools, mountain driving, blizzard driving, etc in them with never the slightest problem. Thats with 225/45r17's. (Not skinny by any shake of the imagination).

The skinny=better thing isn't so true these days with better tire compounds.

Personally, on topic with this discussion, I'd find a storage unit and store the SC during the winter, and buy a beater. At $80 a month or something, or $1000 a year basically, I'd be hard-pressed to justify paying ten or fifteen years worth of storage costs, and compromising both my summer and winter driving experience.