Paint Experts: Painting My Tail

[Rot 911]

Going to paint my ducktail in the next week or so. I will be painting under the following conditions: Will be painting outside, in the morning, temp around 70-75 degrees, humidity will be around 60-70%. I will be using a Devilbiss HVLP gun with the appropriate filters for water and oil. My paint mask is NOT a positive ventilation and I do not have a way to have filtered air pumped into the mask so 2-pack paints are OUT! Color will be Guards Red with no metallic. So my questions are:

What paint for primer?

What paint for color? (brand and type: such as acrylic enamel, urethane, etc.)

What additives to insure the humidity is not a huge problem.

Thanks in advance!

[dhoward]

Kurt, why not use one of the 40 hour 3M throw away respirators? I shot my whole car with DuPont ChromaPremier base/clear and sufferrrrrddd nooooo Illllllll effecttttttssss...........
Really, they're about $18 and are comfortable to wear. Then you won't have to limit yourself to what you can use.
It's what my paint shop recommended....

Tell the guys at the store what conditions you're shooting in, and they'll set you up with the right additives. Follow the mixing directions to the letter...

[BGCarrera32]

Hi-

I'm no expert, but I would recommend the following:

PPG DPLF Primer (you will need to buy the right reducers for it too, etc.)

Follow with a Primer/Surfacer (like PPG K36 - ask them what they recommend at the paint store)
Primer-surfacer allows you to sand out smooth your finish for the color coat, where as the DPLF is an epoxy primer designed to stick to everything and everything sticks to it, but it doesn't sand out as well.

Follow up with single stage PPG Concept (Acrylic Urethane). Make sure you shoot test panels first for correct color match. Don't expect to take a color code in and get a perfect (or even close) match. You will be color sanding and buffing when you are done which is tricky with something small like a tail.

Your total paint stuff above is probably pushing the $300 figure, after reducers, catalysts, etc.

I don't know what your experience level is, have you done any of this before?

-BG

[BGCarrera32]

Follow the mixing directions to the letter...

ditto, ditto, ditto on that, and get the right reducers for the temps you will be shooting in. The wrong reducers will cause the paint to take forever to flash over (dry to the touch) or flash so fast it gets brittle/effects its durability. Mix your ratios carefully!!!

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
Follow up with single stage PPG Concept (Acrylic Urethane).
I don't know what your experience level is, have you done any of this before?
-BG

I have painted 4 cars and probably 10 motorcycles, so I have a fair amount of experience, but only in shooting lacquer and acrylic enamel. As I don't have a paint booth right now I am definitely going to have to go with something that can be wet sanded and buffed out. Do I need a positive ventilation respirator with Acrylic Urethane? I thought any urethane had isocyanide (probably spelled incorrectly)?

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by dhoward
Kurt, why not use one of the 40 hour 3M throw away respirators? I shot my whole car with DuPont ChromaPremier base/clear and sufferrrrrddd nooooo Illllllll effecttttttssss...........

I have a good respirator with filters, but no filter will protect you from the isocyanide in a 2-pack paint. You must use a separate filtered fresh air source with 2-pack paint. Which I do not have.

[dhoward]

You would probably need (or want, more likely) a positive pressure respirator if you're shooting 5 cars a week, or if your neighbor is an OSHA guy. I was going to buy one myself for one job and the paint shop didn't recommend it. And they could have sold me one.
Cover everything in the garage with plastic and wet the floor down. THen shhot whatever you want.
Base/clear, shoot the base and do any nib sanding after it flashes. Shoot 2 coats of clear, sand any runs or orange peel with 1500 and buff.

[BGCarrera32]

Isocyanurates are nasty, but my understanding is that the NIOSH VOC respirators do a good job of getting it out (not that you can smell iso anyway). Plus you're outside, so I don't see a problem. I used the $20 respirator and couldn't smell jack in my makeshift garage booth with it. Keep the respirator in a big air tight zip lock bag after you take it off, it will prolong the life of the carbon filter inside.

If I was at a shop shooting cars all day (thank God I'm not) I;d want a posi vent unit. But I have to wonder about the stuff they sell for the DIY'er...people probably set up the box right outside the booth anyway and still suck crap through it, probably worse then a the VOC mask if used improperly...hmmmm...

Post pics of that tail when done!
-BG

[Rot 911]

BG and dhoward. Does Acrylic Urethane dry faster than acrylic enamel? If I go with the acrylic urethane, how long do I have to wait before I can color sand and buff?

[dhoward]

Haven't shot acrylic for a loooong time so I can't help here. I'm a firm believer in base / clear now that I've used it. Rapid flash/dry times. It's really hard to screw up with a HVLP gun, and the clear provides MUCH better UV protection.

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by dhoward
Haven't shot acrylic for a loooong time so I can't help here. I'm a firm believer in base / clear now that I've used it. Rapid flash/dry times. It's really hard to screw up with a HVLP gun, and the clear provides MUCH better UV protection.

Hmmm, considering I will be outside, perhaps I should go with the base/clear. How fast is the flash/dry time? less than 5 minutes? If I get bugs or dust in the clear can it be color sanded prior to buffing? Do you sand the color coat prior to the clear application? Thanks to both you and BG for some very useful information.

[Bob Spindel]

I've painted a bunch of cars, all outoors in much the same conditions you are describing. I've settled on a "system" that to me, at least, seems to work well.

1)It's hard to beat PPG Epoxy Primer, DP-XX. (The XX differentiates colors. I think DP-40mis black, for example.)

2)Base coat/clear coat. Urethane. Again, PPG. But if your local shop happens to specialize in Dupont or Sikkens or BASF or some other brand, use it. They are all pretty much the same, and for people at our skill level, even if there were differences we probably wouldn't be able to take advantage of them, or even notice them.

The basecoat will flash very quickly, in a minute or two, so you won't have a bug or dust problem with it. Even if you do, you can simply sand it out and recoat. If you have never used base coats, don't be alarmed aftyer shooting it. It'll look dull and unattractive until the clear is applied.

The clear takes a bit longer to dry dust-free, but it still is only 4 or 5 minutes, and if you get any bugs or runs in it, it too can easily be sanded out.

You're doing such a small piece, that even if you botch something you can easily sand it all down and start again.

With respect to a mask. If you're doing this outdoors, and only doing a tail, I wouldn't worry about the isocyanates. The way I've handled them is to wear a regular mask--not an air-supplied mask--and just take a breath of clean air before I start to shoot a panel, and hold it while shooting. Pause, exhale, step to where there is no overspray in the air, and take another.

Good luck.

[dhoward]

What Bob said.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I just last week painted my SC's new Carrera whaletail, and I agree entirely with the eminent Mr. Spindel. If that's all you're doing, and it's outside, wear a good ordinary mask, spray from upwind (ideally, pick a time when there's a very light breeze) and hold your breath.

I'm about to do two racing headlight covers, and they're so small I'll probably _just_ hold my breath.

You can get all crazy about this stuff, but I painted the whole car a couple of years ago (outside, wearing a scuba tank for the big parts) with two-park Glasurit acrylic enamel (great, eminently color-sandable paint), and I'm still writing comprehensible magazine articles.

Stephan

[axl911]

Kurt,

Off topic, but how is that curvy section of highway 63 just east Jeff city? I miss that section of road. Nearly killed myself many times driving from UMC back to UMR at 3AM.

--
anthony

[Rot 911]

Thanks for all the responses! I'll try to take some pics as the project proceeds.

axl911, you just gave yourself away as an engineer when you mentioned UMR! And that curvy section is only good to run late at night cause all the farmers and truck drivers are out on it during the day! Actually the drive from my house to work is more fun!

[skinnerd]

Stephan:

That's quite a vision that I conjur up while imagine painting a car in scuba gear... what did you use the flippers for?

[BGCarrera32]

Well, I've been busted.

I actually used PPG Deltron BC/CC when I did my headlight rings, valance, and bumper.

My BC in Guards Red was $76 for the quart. I have over 1/2 a quart left over.

I then had to buy clear coat, catalyst...yikes. Expensive for such a small job. That's why I recommended single stage. I agree with the superior UV protection of the CC, but if not a daily driver/year round deal, not a biggie in my book. You'll also run the risk of color sanding through your clear in so may detail areas on the tail...if you do go BC/CC, I would use PPG Stratoclear again as it has a fast flash time, and they specifically tell you to do 2 HEAVY wet coats.

The BC should go on what they call "1/2 wet". Don't heap it on. First coat your primer will show through. If glossy, its wrong...if dry dust like, its wrong. Build up over 3 coats or per mfg. instructions. Sand out any runs and reshoot the BC if necessary.

The CC will make it come alive. Amazing stuff.

Any good shop should have all the data sheets available for you to grab on the paint you are using. These list all the flash and cure times, as well as other info and precautions.

Painting is a hoot, ain't it?