Cars that have been updated...

[BennyBroadcast]

What are your opinions on 911's that have been cosmetically updated with regards to price/desirability? I have been scouring all the online ads for months now and I constantly find longnoses that have been "updated" to impact bumpers for the 80's look. Similarly I find many SC's that have been brought up to C2 looks. I recall a thread here dealing with 3.6 conversions and many held the view that once the originality was compromised, you'll kill the resale value. I certainly feel this way about "updating" and wouldn't consider a molested car (I'm not talking about period mods like ducktails and so forth). However if the car was cosmetically unchanged but had a 3.6 already done, that woud interest me. What are your thoughts chaps?

[Lothar]

Personally, I prefer backdating to updating.

[47silver]

at least with the 3.6 it's not an obvious upgrade, it's more of a strong yet subtle modification...

but I hate it when i see early cars that have been updated to the 74 and up look, it just takes away all of the originality. the absence of impact bumpers is one of the main reasons people love early 911s

[Jack Olsen]

One's cosmetic; the other's mechanical. A 3.6 kills a collectible car's 'collectibility.' But there are only a handful of 911 years that are collectible (pre-74, mostly). For all the other models, a 3.6 just makes the car a heck of a lot faster.

[Tinton]

No doubt there are plenty of updates, a single car website reveals one, two, three and more. Original early 911 prices are soaring, it is hard to find a good one and this is partly the reason. Is it any cheaper to update an early 911? Unlikely.

Why would you buy an update SC look a like when you could get a sound SC for much the same or a little more? You wouldn't and that is why these cars won't command the price they should have, in early form.

There are just too many porsches around town which have been modified into something they really are not and will never be. I suggest you join the PCNSW. It's a great resource with plenty of original and 'improved' cars.

Originality, history and condition is what I would look for.

[350HP930]

I like my 80s look as is . . .

I would never have considered buying an updated/backdated/repowered car because I think too many of them are done non-professionally and incorrectly. There are just too many corners that can be cut that would compromise safety or reliability. The exception, for me, would be a car that was professionally redone by a TRE, John Walker or Automotive Innovations group.

[Joe Bob]

Backdating is not a bad thing....it's an aesthetic choice. One that I have chosen. I like the modern mechanicals with early styling.

Putting body parts on an early car is like putting lipstick on a 90 year old hooker.....waste of time and deceitful....

[sfierle]

I would agree with Mark Wilson, too many updated/backdated cars have the potential for safety anf reliablity problems. Through personal experience, many cars that are altered have been done for another reason (other then cosmetics). I looked at a '96 BMW m3 clone last year (not to buy, I'm in the car business, for appraisal) that looked nice at a far, but closer inspection showed a previous major damage. After some investigation, the car was in a train wreck 5 years earlier (and the present owner didn't even know it). Bottom line, be very careful with cars that have had major body modifications, some may have a interesting story to tell.

[Hetmann]

I'm in the camp that its your car and your money do what you want, but I wouldn't buy somebody else's cosmetic update project. So there you have it. If you don't care about ever selling your frankenstein, go for it. I have seen some updated early cars that still have the tired 30 year old interior. Looks awful. I saw one car with rust poking through the paint where the flares were welded on. If you're going down thus path you'd better do the whole package, do it well and plan on keeping it.

[RallyJon]

I would never consider updating the bodywork of an early car to later bumpers. But taking a post '73 car and making it look like a turbo, a Ruf, a 964, etc seems like no big deal.

The interior of an early car is another story. If you don't have most of the original pieces, you've got no chance. I figured it would cost $5-7k to "restore" my '71 interior with early sport seats, dash with no center vent, door panels and pockets, etc. Maybe if I had a numbers-matching S, but just not a sensible choice for a non-collectible driver.

So I chose to selectively update, taking those aspects of later 911 interiors that worked the best for function, appearance and budget. It's still a work-in-progress, but I don't think I've offended the Ghosts-of-Porsches-Past too badly...

[Bruce Huling]

Updated. Hmm. Check out the Gruppe B guys to get another view at http://www.gruppeb.org
While stock or period probably has better resale, this being the United States of America it is also just fine to be a rugged individualist not following the party line. Meaning, if you like it for your own personal reasons. then thats fine. In fact, why care what others think? Resale price, now thats another issue. Although, why is resale such a big deal? Price does not neccessarily equate with value. You must decide what you value, not a bunch of us p car fanatics coming from every conceivable opinion. Furthermore, what are you "de-valuing"?? Should everything in life be measured by how much money it costs? Saves? Go have fun, take pictures, make memories. That is where VALUE is created, not some checkbook or savings account balance. Sheesh!

[Chuck Moreland]

Body updates are always popular right after a new body style is released. Guys with older cars want the look of new without the cost.

Ignoring the poser aspect, for a few years it makes financial sense. Maybe the update costs $3k-$5k, but a new car might cost $30k-$60k more than the old car in the driveway.

But with time, depreciation takes its toll and the car's respective values begin to equalize. Suddenly it seems crazy to update a $10k '69 911T to look like a $11k 83 SC, or a $7k '76 911S!

In time the market inevitably frowns on these conversions. They are almost always worth less than the original car.

Yet today we still see guys putting 993 body kits and 996 body kits on early cars.

In fact just this week I drove my '73 to the local pcar dealer, which sparked a discussion with one of the techs. He has a 71 with rust up front and is planning to retrofit and SC front end on it. I couldn't beleive it!

His justification was that he has the SC parts in hand. I offered to sell him some parts to repair the car, but he has his plan set.

Go figure.

[gduke]

Originally posted by 350HP930
I like my 80s look as is . . .

I also like that look. Mines an 85 cab and I'd post a pic of it as soon as I fig out how to post pic's. This newbe porshe owner aint real computer literate.

[Kevin Stewart]

Opinions are like a$$ holes everyones got one, i believe you should do with your money what you want, i have a 82, that got sideswiped, then my coppergutter with ice fell on it, it needed a left rear 1/4, a left door a left mirror, a left front fender, a hood from the ice a windshield a left front fender from the ice and aleft front mirror from the ice, i came across a factory steel wide body conversion that was cheaper then to restore the car, point in question, the car would never be a concourse car, well it could be with 70-80 thousand sunk in it, so the steel fenders with ligth weigth c2 bumpers went on. with the parts i recieved from the guy i also got the c2 rear and front lights, no brainer there, all the oe lights were faded and junk, my car does look like a 90's c2 wide body, i have never told any body it is, the motor was also tired, i could rebuild about 7500 or have a real car that has real fuel injection and idles right and performs like a modern car with the3.6, i hate to say this the 3.0 and its injection sucks, always had problems with it, and the other 3.0 cars i had, there are cars out that that i agree should be saved, but when a car is rough or tired, have fun with it, thats why we have race cars, and body conversion cars,

[82SC]

IMO conversions suck
in the case above, sure if your car is wrecked and you want to upgrade while your at it...ok...but voluntarily???
it is hilarious to peer in a "993" and see the familiar tiny single SC A/C vent...

3.6 conversion are another thing all together...I think most 3.6 transplants can be reversed pretty easily...why you would want to do it I don't know...a body conversion screams "I can't afford the new model, but I want everyone to think I can"

BTW...kevinp53...I didn't know you are in the 3.6L transplant business now...

(automotive innov did the paint for Jacks car not the transplant...also I think Patrick racing is a source of transplants and the Dr. timmins himself)

Originally posted by 82SC


BTW...kevinp53...I didn't know you are in the 3.6L transplant business now...

(automotive innov did the paint for Jacks car not the transplant...also I think Patrick racing is a source of transplants and the Dr. timmins himself)

Actually, I was referring to Kevin as a body specialist for a backdate.

[Schrup]

I have found a car I feel is worthy of restoration, I feel it would be sacrilegious to modify it other than bolt on items. That being said, I would love to buy an SC & backdate it to drop weight & add power . An RS clone with no rust concerns.

[johncj8989]

Maybe some people just like the looks of a 993TT but cant afford one. Not everybody does an update to impress. Did you ever think they may be doing it because THEY like it?????

Last time I checked Jacks car wasnt a real RSR. But it ROCKS and Jack built it to what he desired. The same should go for the update crowd.

[needlevalve]

Nothin wrong with putting tricks on your porsche be it cosmetic or performance oriented so long as you end up with a car you love

cheers!