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"How To" on charging A/C with Duracool

If anyone has experience charging their system with Duracool (or similar), I would appreciate some advice.

I ordered a "tune up kit" to recharge the A/C in my 1987 Carrera that is equipped with a Nippondenso compressor. The Duracool should arrive this week. I want to add a can or two to see if my A/C will actually get cold.

What are the step by step procedures? Is there anything I have to look out for?

Thank you in advance for the help.

Sincerely,

Mike
Old 08-10-2003, 01:38 PM
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There is lots of information here, but you have to work through some of the threads.

http://www.aircondition.com/wwwboard/alternative/

Tim
Old 08-10-2003, 06:07 PM
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Thanks Tim. I looked through the posts on the "aircondition" site and found a lot of info, but nothing that was Porsche/Nipondenso recharge/top-off specific.

I am really anxious to hear from someone that has used Duracool to top-off their A/C system on a Carrera--a Carrera with a Nippondenso Compressor would be really helpful.

Anyone...Anyone...

Mike
Old 08-10-2003, 08:31 PM
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I have used Duracool on my 78-930 A/C with a rotary compressor. So far (a year) no problem at all. It cools as good as R-12.
Do not purge the R-12 system - need to keep the oil in the system.
If your system is just low - cooling to about 60 degrees or so - add a can of Duracool (don't over charge the system, Duracoll has more charge per can). Will need a special fitting that the Duracool rep. will supply with the kit.
Go for it, it works.
Old 08-11-2003, 05:55 AM
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Thank you Miguel!
Old 08-11-2003, 08:18 AM
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I have not received the kit from Duracool yet. There are supposed to be directions included with their kit and the rep in Tennessee said to call him if I have any questions. Obviously I will read Duracool's directions CLOSELY, but here is the procedure as I understand it from other posts:

Car running at 2,000 rpm

A/C on

line on Duracool can and valve closed

line connected to A/C LOW SIDE valve on Nippondensso compressor

open low side valve on compressor by turning (CLOCKWISE?)

open valve on Duracool can side

close engine cover as far as possible while holding Duracool can?

wait 5 minutes until can is empty

close valve on compressor by turnning (COUNTERCLOCKWISE?)

close valve on Duracool side

disconnect and finished

I will wear glasses during the procedure and gloves.

What would I be leaving out or doing wrong here?

What do I need to look out for to avoid any accidents?

Thank you!

Mike
Old 08-11-2003, 08:30 AM
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Sound like your on track Mike. Make sure the AC is on the highest setting. You should buy a AC thermometer to get your vent temp.
Good luck.
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Last edited by GB83SC; 08-11-2003 at 03:53 PM..
Old 08-11-2003, 09:04 AM
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You should probably "bleed" the hose from the can to A/C valve prior to openning the low side valve. This would prevent air getting into the system.
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Old 08-11-2003, 10:56 AM
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The nippondenso does not have stem valves, they have shraeder valves so you do not need to open the valve in order to access the system
Old 08-11-2003, 10:58 AM
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I checked the duracool website and it mentions in small print "not to mix refrigerants" this could be interpreted as not using it to "top off" a partially filled R12 system. No mention as to why you should not mix duracool with others. FWIW
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Old 08-11-2003, 11:22 AM
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Am I correct in thinking that schrader valves are like bicycle inner tube valves that open when they are pushed and automatically close when that pressure is released?

Is there a special connection/connector that I will need to allow the Duracool into my system?

I will contact the retailer to see if he is sending that connection.

Thank you GB83SC, 91C2wrencher, and ruf-porsche for your replies. They are very much appreciated.

Sincerely,

Mike
Old 08-11-2003, 11:25 AM
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91C2wrencher:

The Duracool rep states that Duracool R12a mixes perfectly with R12. Perhaps they don't want 134 mixed with R12a, or vice versa.

I was also told that the R12a molecules are 5X larger than the R12 molecules so a system that leaked R12 through non-barrier type hoses may not leak anymore.

I sure do hope this works of me...

Mike
Old 08-11-2003, 11:31 AM
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Your plan looks good. Why closing the engine lid while filling? You will have to turn the Duracool can up and down while discharging to allow gas and liquid interface to go into the A/C system...
Be sure to wear safety glasses and TO STAY AWAY from BOTH BELTS
Good Luck!
Old 08-11-2003, 11:48 AM
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DuraCool will mix with R12 and work well....according to their info. However, they also state that it is illegal to mix refrigerants.

It's also important to hold the can upside down when performing this procedure...and you may not need an entire can. The most accurate way to achieve the proper fill is to use a set of guages. Overfilling can potentially harm components in the system or, at minimum, prevent it from working at it's peak.
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Old 08-11-2003, 11:53 AM
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Thank you Miguel.

I WILL stay away from the belts! I play guitar as a hobby and I don't feel like losing any of my fingers. So, thank you for the reminder.

I read that the lid must be closed or the condensor will overheat really fast due to the fact that it is mounted on the top of the engine lid and it relies on air being pulled through it via the engine fan. I would hope it would take longer than 5 minutes or so for this to happen though???

Anyway, if it is reasonable and safe, I will try it. Otherwise, the lid will be up.

Mike
Old 08-11-2003, 11:59 AM
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The deck lid should be closed during the entire filling procedure; otherwise you run the risk of a compressor failure or hose rupture. If you mix refrigerants you will have a difficult time getting a shop to work on your A/C system in the future. Some shops sample the A/C refrigerant to check for mixed refrigerants. If you manage to get it into a shop and contaminate their refrigerant recovery sytem expect to pay a hefty charge for it's cleaning/repair. I fully expect EPA to eventually ban the sale of R-134a and all other refrigerant substitutes to the general publc because of these provisional A/C repairs with the mixing of refrigerants. Jim
Old 08-11-2003, 12:12 PM
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Thanks Jim. I will keep the lid closed as much as possible.

Jim, I would NEVER go into a shop and lie about what is/was in my system. I was told that a number of shops have reclaiming or recovery systems for chemicals other than R134 or R12 (such as Duracool). I guess I will find out. If not, Duracool CAN be vented into the environment without damaging the ozone, unlike the freon (R12) that leaks out of EVERYONE'S older A/C system.

Your statement "I fully expect EPA to eventually ban the sale of R-134a and all other refrigerant substitutes to the general publc because of these provisional A/C repairs with the mixing of refrigerants" has a little bite to it. Enlighten me as to how the "mixing of refrigerants" specifically R12 and Duracool R12a is bad for the environment? I was told that mixing R-12 and Duracool R-12a is not harmful in ANY way. How will this mix be harmful? My understanding is that by me "toping off" my system with Duracool instead of R-12, I will be doing the environment and its occupants a good turn. Where am I wrong?

Jim, I do not want to harm the environment or anyone in it. I frankly don't give a **** about the EPA though. I am not going to go into it, but their record for good, honest decision making that is ONLY in the public's interest is frankly not real good!

Please let me know how I am harming the environment or breaking the law by adding Duracool to my basically empty A/C system. I honestly won't use the Duracool I ordered if you can explain how I am harming the environment more than if I recharge my system with R-12.

Sincerely,

Mike
Old 08-11-2003, 01:21 PM
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MOMO 3.2

If you go to the epa website you will find approve refrigerant for automotive use. I believe duracool, freeze 12, isobutane propane, etc have not been approved by the EPA as an automotive refrigerant.
Old 08-11-2003, 01:49 PM
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"I ordered a "tune up kit" to recharge the A/C in my 1987 Carrera that is equipped with a Nippondenso compressor. The Duracool should arrive this week. I want to add a can or two to see if my A/C will actually get cold."

From the above statement I assumed you planned to add "Duracool" to a system partially charged with R-12 or R134a which is mixing refrigerants. The difficulty with mixed refrigerants comes in the recovery equipment at a shop: there is both the problem of contaminating the recovery systems with incorrect refrigerants and who knows what else they put in "Duracool" plus there is the fire hazard with some of the refrigerant replacements. The damage to the environment comes when someone finds out how expensive their mixed refrigerant system will be to purge and service and they just vent it to the atmosphere. I'm not saying you'll do this but I predict plenty of people will do so.

If your system is empty of R-12 you likely can't just add "Duracool" as the system may be contaminated with air and water vapor and be short on oil - if the R-12 leaked out so may have the oil. You will likely need to replace the receiver/drier, evacuate the system, check for leaks, then add refrigerant and oil. Adding oil this way is just a guess though- too much oil will impede heat transfer and degrade performance and too little oil will starve the compressor of lubrication reducing it's life.

Cheers, Jim
Old 08-11-2003, 02:13 PM
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Thanks Jim.

My guess would be the overwhelming majority of people that try Duracool or similar products do so because they have an original R-12 system that leaks. These leaks are either due to the non-barrier hoses in their system which were designed to leak out R-12 or as the result of degraded gaskets, fittings, or hoses. I fit into this catagory.

Anyone concerned about the environment should feel just a little bit better every time someone in my situation chooses to top off OR recharge with Duracool instead of R-12. The same is true whenever someone decides to use Duracool instead of converting their system over to the other EPA approved toxin R-134.

As far as venting a system into the atmosphere, as I stated, EVERYONE'S OE R-12 system leaks until he or she changes to barrier hoses. These systems were designed to vent into the atmosphere slowly over time (bad design). The WORST thing an environmentally conscious person can do is recharge a leaky R-12 system with R-12. I, therefore, believe I am making an environmentally sound decision to use Duracool. The EPA et al should feel a great deal of relief and expedite nation wide approval of such environmentally friendly refrigerants.

God I feel good about myself.

Sincerely,

Mike
Old 08-11-2003, 02:49 PM
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