What should I do? Your opinion wanted. (long)

[Wayne 962]

What should I do? Your opinion wanted. (long)

Okay, I have somewhat of a unique situation here. I'm trying to reduce the number of cars that I own to make room for more aquisitions in the future. I'm not sure what's on the table to acquire, but I would like to sell off some of my cars in order to help fund the 914-6 project (if you remember, the short-stroke 3.2 killer engine I'm building costs about $10K when you add up all the goodies).

I've got my 356 up on eBay and in a few classifieds - no real problems or issues with that car - it will sell eventually for around $10K or perhaps a little less depending upon the market (I would like to get $10.5K for it, which will include a whole bunch of extra parts). Writing two Porsche books has been a boon to my parts collection, as I have used "the book" as an excuse to buy just about everything cool that I have seen ("Oh, I need that for some pictures for the book..."). Makes for a handy excuse, right? Anyways, that leaves me with tons of cool (and some not-so-cool) stuff piled away in my garage (and at Pelican). I'm slowly going through all of it, and I'm trying to sell off a lot of it. Some stuff is parts that I acquired for the 101 Projects Book, but never used. Most of this stuff can be put back into inventory at Pelican, but the rest needs to be sold.

This takes me to my quandary. The car that I used for the 101 Book is my 911SC. Some of you have seen pictures of this car. It's a 1982 911SC coupe that is in excellent chassis condition. I purchased this car specfically to work on and take apart for the book. As such, it has served it's purpose well. However, it has been neglected significantly in the name of progress, specifically the book. In the beginning, when I was working on the book, I actually started doing all of the projects to the car, and documenting them. Then, as the deadline rapidly approached, I quickly realized that I had to move quicker. So, I began to work on the car just so that I could get pictures for the book. Basically, you only need one picture for a project like brake discs, so I found myself removing and replacing one brake disc on one side of the car. This indeed was a smart idea, as the book got finished on-time, and was (and is) a huge success.

However, this left my 911SC in a strange state of uncompletion (is that a real word?). The problem is that the car is very straight, very good and solid, but it has a whole host of issues with it, stemming directly from being the "source" car for the book. For example, the carpet kit is only 90% installed (I did not have time to finish it). The rear window is not installed (only installed the front windscreen). Certain parts on the car have been replaced with brand new ones, but typically only on one side (and frankly, I can't remember what I replaced and what I didn't replace - for example the rear brake discs were completely in spec, so I removed one, installed the new one, took photos, and then put the old one back on).

Things like this exist all over the car. Here is a run-down of it's condition:

Chassis & Paint - The chassis is very good - there isn't any rust on it as far as I have seen (never seen *any* if I recall correctly). There is a small dent in the lower floorpan under the drivers left foot, where someone incorrectly tried to jack the car up with a floor jack. This should be easy to fix with a puller. There are no large dents, no accident damage, no major door dings bigger than a dime. The paint is super-tired, it will need paint no matter what. The top of the car has that late-80's paint fade that I see all the time from this era. I guess paint wasn't as good back then as it is today. Other than that, all panels, fenders, bumpers, etc. are all intact and perfect. The chassis has about 140,000 original miles on it. The door was removed to take pictures for the book (big mistake), and both Alex (PreTech)and myself spend several hours trying to get it aligned perfectly again with the new seals. It still needs some work. The sunroof has been completely disassembled, cleaned, and all worn parts (like the cables and bushings) have been replaced with all new parts, as detailed in our sunroof tech article. New hood shocks. The door has the door-stay repair kit installed (worked well)

Engine - The engine was rebuilt for the 101 Projects book. All new parts were installed, and all machine work was done by EMS, (case, heads, etc.). There is a problem though - the engine leaks oil. I'm not sure what went wrong with this rebuild, but these oil leaks will need to be extensively investigated and fixed. I'm not 100% sure where they are coming from (haven't spent too much time looking at it to figure it out exactly.) The car has been parked since the 101 Book was finished (about 2 years ago), and it leaks oil also when sitting. I may have a leaky oil line - I'm not sure. I also had to steal a part or two off of this engine in an emergency (it was parked at the rear of my garage for several months while I was working on the Engine Rebuild Book), when I needed a part for the photos in the Engine Rebuild Book. I have since replaced those parts, however, when I drove it to it's current location, one of the lines was loose, and it spewed a whole bunch of oil out (could be the source of another leak). The engine was rebuilt with reused Alusil cylinders and pistons, and it was re-ringed. The rings have seated well, and the car passed CA smog quite easily. Lots of new parts were used, and the tensioners were upgraded to the later-style Carrera ones. It has good heat exchangers, I think it has a new muffler (can't remember), and a brand new catalytic converter on it (low-flow, newer aftermarket). The car starts and runs very well, although there is a tiny, slight waver in the idle (not 100% rock solid, but better than 90% of the cars out there I have seen). My thoughts are that it might have a small vacuum leak around one of the injectors (the carb-cleaner spray test revealed a slight change in idle speed). All of the seals in the fuel injection have been replaced (the ones commonly replaced) and all of the common hoses too. Aside from the leak, the engine starts, idles, and runs very well. This car has a maximum of 1200 miles on it since the rebuild. Engine mounts recently replaced too (I think). CIS popoff valve installed. A/C system is empty (never tried to fill it up). New fuel filters, plugs, wires, etc - all the usual stuff you replace when you rebuild the engine.

Interior - Seats are good, although they show signs of cracks. One seat was redyed for the book (hmm, maybe only one section of one seat - can't remember). The headliner is new (don't try this at home), and I changed it from white to black. As mentioned previously, the rear window still needs to be installed. All interior pieces and seats are in excellent condition, but the new carpet kit is only about 90% installed. I have new carpet and new floormats for the car. The speedo has been upgraded from the 85 mph to the 150? mph one, but I haven't hooked up the electrical yet for it. The temp gauge has been upgraded to the numerical one. A brand new SONY CD-player has been installed in the dash. The mirror needs to be attached to the new winshield. Uncracked dash. Complete, the interior will be about a nine on a scale of ten. I can't recall any areas of concern for the interior.

Transmission - The 915 is in good condition, I can't remember it grinding at all. I have installed a short shift kit in the car, and I also have the original shifter as well. New coupler and new bushings. Recent tranny fluid flush as well (I think). Mounts are good.

Suspension - Some components have been replaced, some bushings too, but it's iffy, and I can't remember which. The Turbo Tie Rod kit has been replaced, along with the ball joint on the left side. The entire car was lowered, and aligned by Alex at PreTech. It looks a heck of a lot better at the euro height than the std US spec height. I'm not sure if one of the shocks is new - I can't remember if I replaced one or just took pics of it. It does have a new cambermeister bar installed in the front. Speaking of the front, the heater system in the front near the master cylinder has been removed to take pictures of the MC. I have not reinstalled this back in. The heater system in the rear has not been reinstalled either (oil leak). I think I have new heater flapper boxes in the rear.

Brakes are good - I think new pads, but again, not 100% sure. If not, then they are all in spec and braking is very good. I think that I have new stainless steel lines on at least one corner of the car. The car is located in Pasadena in a garage, so I don't have easy access to see these things (don't have a jack there).

Oil System - new oil lines in several places around the car. I have upgraded the car to the complete Carrera Oil cooler in the front, however, the fan still needs to be electrically wired up. The cooler works well, and there are no leaks from this part of the system. JM PRO oil cooler scoop installed.

Clutch - The entire clutch setup is brand new, and has less than 1500 miles on it. New pressure plate, disc, throw-out bearing, etc, cable, helper spring, spring mechanism bushings & bearings - the works. Clutch feel is excellent.

Wheels & Tires - I have chrome Fuchs 6x16 and 7x16 with new Pirelli tires on them (I think they are Pirellis). These tires are a few years old but have about 1200 miles on them. I also have a set of black centered fuchs with bad tires on them that could possibly go with the car as well. The chrome wheels have polished center caps.

Parts - I have almost all of the missing and removed parts from the car. It is complete. I have the original toolkit and original spare in the front trunk.

[continued]

[Wayne 962]

Okay, so what's the question? I'm not really sure what to do with this car. It's a very good car, with some very good things about it (good interior, rebuilt engine, new clutch, new tires, Carrera Oil cooler). However, it also has a bunch of things that need serious attention (completing the install of the interior, fixing the oil leaks, painting it). After fixing the few major things, this car will be a very solid, very complete, very good running 911SC. It will also have some notoriety (as being the car as featured in the 101 Book.).

I'm trying to maximize it's value. I can either sell it as a whole, or remove the drivetrain and sell the chassis. I'd really like to sell it as a complete car for $10K. However, I have other people telling me that might be a stretch, considering that the car needs some attention. However, I have other people telling me that $10K is a good value for the car, given that the parts are new, the engine is rebuilt, and there isn't too much to be done to the car to get it in super-excellent condition. I can drop the drivetrain and sell the chassis separately. Or, if no one wants to buy the car in it's current condition, I can also remove the expensive parts that I have added (like the oil cooler, camber bar, etc.), and then try to sell it for a lower price. I am *very* short on time right now, and just want to sell it. But, I don't want to give it away for $5K either. It's not really "in the way" as it is non-op'ed in Pasadena, but it would be nice to clear it off of my plate.

So, what's your opinion (I know there are lots of opinions out there). Should I just sell the car whole? Is it worth $10K, $8K, $6K? Values for these cars have been dropping so fast lately. Usually, I think I'm good at estimating values, but I'm too close to this one, and it's too unusual a situation. Should I drop the drivetrain, swap the wheels, and remove the oil cooler? How much is a good, solid 911SC chassis worth? What would I do with a spare 3.0L engine and tranny? I don't really need it right now. Part out the engine (1000 miles are on the heads, which had about $800 worth of work done). New Carrera chain tensioners weren't cheap either. However, this takes time too, and time right now is one that that I have very little of.

Please let me know what you think...

-Wayne

P.S. Here is a link to some photos:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/wayne/911SC/ulthm.htm

[dd74]

I can see your dilemma. If it were me, I wouldn't pay anymore than $8K, because, after all, it is an incomplete car (that's the word I think you're looking for -- "incomplete").

Anyway, in my novice opinion, this is one of the rare cases where I believe you should part out the car, rather than selling it in the state it is in. Yes, it might take time, but I believe you'll make more money that way. A friend of mine had his '81 Mercedes run into and totaled. I gave him the same suggestion, but he went ahead and junked the whole car. Now he sees Mercedes Benz sedans like his missing certain parts that on his car were in working condition. Now he regrets the missing $$$ he could have made.

I suggest, if you haven't already, checking out the Pelican board classifieds to see what the going rates are for the parts you might potentially "part out". That way, you can tally up everything that you could part out, against the value of an incomplete car, and probably come out ahead. Hence, $6-$8K vs. the probability of more $$$ in parts.

For instance, I might be in the market for some SC front struts. If the price is right, and they're in good shape, I could buy them from you very soon - that is if you're selling them in a "parting out" fashion.

Another option - and a dreaded one at that - is reassembly of the car back to stock status. You'd probably sell it a lot faster than in its current condition.

I know it's a hassle, but I'd part it out. Dave at TRE sold most of an SC targa track car in what seemed like a month or so. All he needed to do was take the parts off the car.

Good luck. If you do part out the car, there's a chance I might be interested in, at least, the front struts. If it has H4 headlights, I might be interested in those, too.

You be the judge, my friend.

[UTKarmann_Ghia]

How dustbowl batman!

I have to agree with dd74 on the price. You MIGHT get a little bit more than 8k, but that year SC in good running condition is fetching 10k. A year ago, they seemed to be fetching about 12-13, but seems not anymore. Yours is a unique situation tho with partial upgrades and rebuilt engine and parts. I dont know anything about parting out a 911 so I cant comment there. It would be a shame for another 911 to get parted out and be lost forever

[Wayne 962]

Not interested in parting it out - if I have the time to do that, then I might as well just put it all back together. The closest I would come would be to remove the drivetrain and sell the chassis. Anyone know what an '82 Chassis is going for these days? I see prices all over the place...

-Wayne

[MBAtarga]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Anyone know what an '82 Chassis is going for these days? I see prices all over the place...

-Wayne

I've seen them go for $500 at Pomona

[dd74]

You might consider a trade, too. Maybe for a 3.6 basket case. But I'd include all the upgrades...

[Wayne 962]

A 3.6 basket case shouldn't go more than $1500 or so (this would be a cracked case motor)...

-Wayne

[Schrup]

I would put it up for $10k obo wait 1 or 2 months & let it go. Time is money.

[dd74]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
A 3.6 basket case shouldn't go more than $1500 or so (this would be a cracked case motor)...

-Wayne

And there you go: cracked chassis for a cracked motor. (partial upgrades included, of course). When I say cracked, I mean "strange" as per your details...

It's a no-brainer.

You really don't have much to lose since you probably got the parts at wholesale and the labor was all yours, right?

[Wayne 962]

pschrup, you're right - I think that's what I might do. I think to the right person, it's worth the $10K. It's also probably worth $8K to someone, minus a bunch of stuff that I can easily take off (wheels, speedo, temp gauge, oil cooler, stereo, camber bar, toolkit, etc., short shift kit & shifter, etc.). I would just rather sell it for $10K with all the stuff than $8K without...

Maybe I'll put it up on eBay with a reserve of $10K and a buy-it-now of $10,500 or $11K, and see what happens... That is unless, someone here wants it for $10K. Or, I can lower the price if I don't include some other stuff that's already on the car...

-Wayne

[UTKarmann_Ghia]

Just make sure you at least rinse off the dust before you take the pics

[Wayne 962]

I don't have a hose out there, unfortunately...

-Wayne

[1982911sc]

Wayne,
Following Ebay pricing, I really doubt you could pick up over $10k on Ebay for the car in described condition. Maybe, you could clean it up and finish the major issues and get more. I know...time is the enemy........

[Wayne 962]

Who knows, I guess I can put it up there and see what happens. If it doesn't sell, then I can put it up there again, but take a few things off of it to bring the price down...

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Then, when you see something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10156&item=2426784166

it makes you scratch your head...

-Wayne

[1973911s]

Wayne,

I am sure you can get a premium since it was the car used to help write 101 projects, maybe you should sign the glove box and sign a book for the new owner.

[nostatic]

I don't see how as described it is much different from a "typical" SC out there on the market. Most of them are a mishmash of replaced stuff, and oil leaks are the rule rather than acception. Given the market though I don't think it is a 10K car unless you find someone that wants a "semi-project."

You could always have Alex finish off the car, but you likely wouldn't get the money back out. Feels like $8K to me.

[jk911]

Wayne I think $10,000 is a very cheap price you could sell it for ! (Here in Australia you could sell it for twice that price).

That's probably one of the only 911sc's out there that you know what your buying (there's no jack in a box here) ! Throw in a free copy of your book

Anyone who expresses a strong negative opinion of your asking price appears to me to have ulterior motives which I would automatically dismiss.

my 2 cents

[Par911]

Wayne,
I have been looking for my SC for over a year now and I came across a number of potential candidates, most recently being a GP White 1980 SC with the 3.0L in good condition selling for $8,000. The only issues with the car were the paint (it had some rock chips, and scratches) and the interior (the car needed a new dash, seats were torn, torn headliner). But mechanically the SC ran fine. The seller had been trying to sell the car for $11,000 for the past year. After getting low offers, he sold it for $8,000 about a week ago to a guy who did servicing on the 911. Anyways, I hope this story gives you some idea of how the market is. I'm sure your SC is in much better condition, so if it was me, I would post it for $10,000. If time is running out and you really need to get rid of it quick, then drop the price to maybe $8,000. I'm sure someone will jump on that deal. Hope this helps.
Pari