Monty vs. Dansk

[mdw48009]

I need a 2 in 1 out and am considering the Monty and the Dansk. 2.7 RS Pistons, S cams, 40 IDA 3C

Price difference is $300 (Dansk primered stainless steel) vs $600 (polished stainless steel Monty).

After ordering (and before receiving) the Dansk, I heard that the Dansk was not stainless on the inside and therefore would corrode. Also heard that the Dansk has inferior quality.

Anyone with experience with both?

Currently running a sport muffler. My wife wants something a little less aggressive and loud.

[Bill Douglas]

I think the Dansk is the quietest of the bunch (noisy, sports, 2 in - 1 out types).

[Adam]

I can't comment on the Dansk, but the Monty is a top-quality unit. I'm very pleased with mine, even if it does boom a little inside the cabin.

The Monty won't be popular with your wife, which means you should love it!

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Adam Chaplin

, but the Monty is a top-quality unit. I'm very pleased with mine

ditto

[Randy Webb]

Why not use a stock muffler? We know that most aftermarket mufflers lose power rel. to the stocker.

If you want good power and loudness intermediate between the stock and the sport units, use a 2 in, 2 out "cowhorn" type. You can make one from a stock unit, or buy them various places.

[rdane]

"We know that most aftermarket mufflers lose power rel. to the stocker."

The owner of SSI says that there is a no drop on their numerious dyno tests between a two in and two out Dansk or Monte. He also suggested either over a OEM for better performance.

Where are you getting the "loose power" info from?

[Adam]

That theory runs true for MFI engines, generally. MFI engines don't always work better with aftermarket mufflers. I've heard that factory, or factory "sport" mufflers work best on highly tuned MFI engines.

For CIS/Motronic cars, Montys, B&Bs, GHLs or Dansks work great!

How much longevity is lost by not having stainless steel internals?

I got a Dansk 2 in 1 out and I love it. Aggressive and loud when I want it to and silent as stock spec. on long trips. Perfect compromise for a street car.

Remember that stainless steel internals will make the sound more "light" and screaming where normal steel internals will provide a slightly deeper more rumbling sound.

[Danskman]

mdw48009:

The Dansk sport mufflers you mention are stainless steel, both inside and out. The interior components are both 304 and 409 (4512). 4512 is a ferritic type of stainless steel, and will attract a magnet. This type of stainless steel is used by many OE exhaust manufacturers (BMW, Mercedes, Porsche). This long-time rumor of Dansk sport mufflers being carbon steel inside is just not true.

Feel free to call me any time with questions. 530-676-7246.

[Randy Webb]

"tests between a two in and two out Dansk or Monte. He also suggested either over a OEM for better performance.
Where are you getting the "loose power" info from?"

If JD said that, I'd take him at his word. He doesn't mess around.

The lose power info was from Bruce Anderson. I can't recall if it was in his book, and/or in a column he wrote, or just in conversation. I was looking into this pretty heavily at one time, befor eI decide to go with a cowhorn modified stock muffler. Maybe it does only apply to MFI.

Monty does have a good rep.
re Dansk, I recall people posting on the carbon steel interior -- maybe they used magnets to check? The thought was that there were two or more different models. If it was carbon steel, then maybe it was just a production run. Danskman, have you cut up a lot of them, or is that just based on a sample size of one? People may want to check each with a magnet before buying if there really are some out there with no SS inside.

[mdw48009]

I am not using the stock OEM one because it costs $1200. Called everyone that I could think of. THe price listed on PP is wrong. Something to do with the Euro. I am trying to get something with the right (near stock) back pressure. I think that it may be causing a flat spot - in addition to the noise (wife) or symphony (me).

[Danskman]

Randy Webb:

Dansk has NEVER used carbon steel on the interior of their sport mufflers. It was not done on ANY production run.

The only mufflers we produce that are not stainless steel are the sport mufflers that we came out with about a year ago. These mufflers are aluminzed steel, with a polished stainless steel tailpipe. This series of mufflers is painted in a high temp, crinkle black finish. Several members of this board have these on their cars, and are very pleased with them.

I have never cut open a Dansk muffler - have never had to! I have been in their factory in Denmark several times and seen for myself the production, and the materials used for production. I believe this notion about carbon steel came about due to the magnetic quality of the 4512.

mdw48009:
In reviewing your original post, the Dansk stainless steel muffler that is painted gray is the OE muffler, not a sport muffler. This muffler that is painted gray is the muffler that is supplied to Porsche. If you're considering a sport muffler, you should be looking at the Dansk polished stainless steel muffler with 84mm tailpipe(s). I can give you all the correct part numbers for what it is you're looking for. Pelican can supply you with either the sport or OE version.

[Steve W]

Hi Danskman, there seems to be some confusion as to the 2 in 1 out sport versions of the muffler Dansk is selling. Could you clarify it for all of us, perhaps supplying us the part numbers so everyone could order correctly. As I understand it, there are:

1) single out polished sport for 73 and back bumpers

2) single out polished sport for 74 and later bumpers

3) primered stainless sport for 73 and back

4) primered stainless sport for 74 and later

5) polished stainless with loose tip for owner installation

Are 3 and 4 baffled any different than a stock muffler? The reason I ask is that a couple of weeks ago, I drove a customer's car with what his shop ordered and installed was supposedly the new primered single out sport muffler with his SSIs, and I think 74 mm tip, but it sounded pretty quiet to me, certainly no way as loud as the Dansk dual out sport muffler I had once. In fact the stock Bischoff muffler on my car is deeper and freer sounding than the the muffler I heard.

[campbellcj]

I'd be interested in more details about the "RSR" version of the polished 2-in/2-out early style Dansk. I have one on my 914-6 and love it so far. The quality is excellent IMHO compared to many others I've seen (although the Monty does look superb as well from what I've seen briefly)

Is the "RSR" sport baffled differently than the "regular" sport, I'm assuming? It is clearly -very- loud but I wanted minimal restriction and my 914 is a near-dedicated track car anyway.

[Randy Webb]

Here's something:

Ok, seems like it is time to post this again... I don't recall any of the
authors of this Email (but BA - Means Bruce Anderson & JW means Jerry
Woods)... your reality checks may vary -- Randy

Monty:
Nothing but a Monty will do. Go to http://www.************** Dave is very
knowledgeable about these things. Neither the Bursch nor the Dansk improve
the performance and nothing sounds like a Monty.

I spoke with Steve Weiner (Rennsport Systems) jan 2003 regarding this very
issue (SSI and matching muffler on a 3.0). His experience and testing with
dyno anaylsis showed the Monty as the hands down winner, producing 7+ hp,
where the others (Dansk Sport, B&B, Fabspeed) produced about 3-4hp more
than stock. The Monty is a quality stainless unit, which fits perfectly w/o
modification and is QUIET as well.

With the SSIs on a Carrera, with a Monty 2 in 2 out (3") muffler: The
Monty made a noticable performance increase over my previousely installed
Dansk 2 in 2 out, and the workmanship is beautiful.

Also according to Steve Weiner of Rennsport Systems, "the Monty flows best".

On an '88 Carrera, the sound of the Monty and Dansk is about the same, not
loud. The Monty definitely makes more power, by the seat of the pants dyno.

WCB has a Monty 3" single pipe muffler with SSIs on my 70 S with a 2.8 twin
plug. All stainless construction and nice fit and finish. Louder than
stock with a bit of buzz at about 2,000 rpm; a quality part.

The Monty is a fabricated SS muffler, beautiful workmanship, around $700.
I got mine from Steve Weiner at Rennsportsystems.com
================================================== =========

Bursch -- numerous negative comments on Pelican Bd. citing rust and raspy
obnoxious (resonance) noise problems
================================================== =========

Someone found a true bolt on sport muffler with the correct factory fittings
even for dual out. It is the RUF sport muffler and it comes as a kit
Weissach.

http://www.weissach.com/

The kit includes the dual out sport muffler, new rear valence panel with the
correct cutout, new right rear lower fender extension with the correct
dished cutout, new bolts, straps and even two black muffler tips. All
Porsche oem factory parts.

Sound of the sport muffler is awesome, great power, no resonance and it all
fits and looks like the factory intended.
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Dansk:
The Dansk appears to be a stock SS muffler, with a outlet added to the right
side

Dansk Muffler Modifications:
Volney (vspalding@epiphany.com) is very happy with the mods to his Dansk
muffler and has experienced no resonance at all. PE Products in San Luis
Obispo, CA did the mods (they advertize in PANO). They cut out a square in
the back (inlet) side of the muffler, then went inside and I believe blocked
off the passenger side. Thus, there is only half of the baffling effect of
the original. Then they reweld the "panel" back on and there is no visible
effect since the cutout/reweld is done on the inlet side of the muffler. It
has a distinctive sound. A 3" tip welded on completes the effect.
================================================== =========
Borla:
Borla muffler sounds great, not much louder, just throatier (is that a
word). The car seems to make much more power down low.
================================================== =========

AJ-USA:
The AJ-USA 2-in/2-out muffler is LOUD. It sounds wicked-cool, but could be a
bit much for a daily driver and in a "heavily civilized" area it will
attract a whole lot of attention. I'll leave it to you to decide if that's a
plus or a minus.


================================================== =========


Rob King at S-Car-Go modifies mufflers to add a 2nd exhaust - BA.

================================================== =========
Ansa:
Thom & Barry Schultz: The factory Ansa two-in and one-out is a great
sounding muffler when used in conjuction with SSI's. Not overly loud but
definately enhances the flat six music as it was meant to be heard. Plus
it's not expensive. After spraying with 1500 oF paint (black) it has zero
rust in almost two years of use. It has a very good sound, no annoying
resonance. Vertex sells them ~~ $200.
Anza is said to make 3 hp less than stock. This comes secondhand from the
list with the source being some info. put out by Bruce Anderson. The Monty's
3 hp gain came from two runs each with the Monty and Stock hooked up to
SSIs on a chassis dyno. The SSIs themselves made 4hp more than stock heat
exchangers. Given that the total gain is 7 hp it shows the factory did their
homework with the early (pre 75) exhaust system. A 2.8 with MFI and GE 60
cams makes 221.9 hp at the rear wheels which would be about 262 at the
flywheel. [note: chassis dyno runs do not have highly accurate
repeatability, so a 3 hp gain or loss may not mean much. 3 hp in relation
to 220 hp is less than
2% difference in any event.]

================================================== =========

It is not absolutely necessary to change the oil lines when putting SSIs on
a Carrera. The right side fits as is and the left side requires the top of
the heater box to be massaged down about .25 inch on the right side to clear
the oil
line. Takes about 1 minute with a rubber hammer and cannot be seen once it
is installed.

================================================== =========

1. SSI does have a Carrera model but it differs from the SC only in the
thickness of the flanges. The primaries are 1 1/2" as they are on the SC
model. John was really pretty talkative. He has certainly taken notice of
the discussions saying that the 3.2's need 1 5/8" primaries. He told me that
Bruce Anderson once compared the SSI's with racing headers (I have to reread
Bruce to see if I can find that). The SSI's showed higher HP than the
headers up to 5500 rpm after which the headers were superior. "You decide
how you want to use your car and take your pick" seemed to be John's
attitude. He definitely did not sound like he was planing for SSI going to
bigger primaries than 1 1/2".

2. As most people know, you need to change the oil lines to fit SSI's to a
Carrera. John sells them for $125.

3. To attach the Carrera heating system to the SSI's requires basically that
you modify the Carrera heating system to be like the SC heating system. John
described this at length but since I have no clue about how the SC is
plumbed, it went right past me. I did understand that you can go down to the
junkyard and scavenge parts off an SC or earlier car and put it on the
Carrera to make it work.

4. We talked mufflers and went over the ones I was considering. John's
suggestion was the Monty from Australia. He likes the quality and says it
fits up nicely. Monty's are sold by Dave Aase of Aase Sales.

5. According to John, to fit SSI's we need to lengthen the wiring to the O2 sensor about 6" as well.

[Randy Webb]

Danskman:
"The only mufflers we produce" -- this implies you work for them. True? So is what you say a company policy? Thx for the clarification, esp. re the SS alloy not being magnetic. I know that Dansk has a good rep.

[campbellcj]

Randy - just for clarification, the above synopsis seems to refer to the "cowhorn" (end outlet) type of Dansk as opposed to the early center-outlet type. The one I'd like to hear more about is the center-outlet unit, which is the same basic design as the factory ones and other clones such as the AJ-USA (modified Tesh?).

[Doug Zielke]

Before you buy a Monty, try to get a ride in a car equipped with one. I was fortunate to do just that when I was muffler shopping.
I found the Monty (2/1) developed more cockpit resonance than my ears could stand.
I had a similar experience with the Triad muffler. Your ears may find it differently, so find out before you part with your money.

I'm glad I took Brad Robert's (he of SSI) advice to buy a Dansk. I'm very happy with it.
And thanks to "Danskman" for answering the question about mild steel parts inside Dansk mufflers.

[rdane]

I'll repeat this. The owner of SSI commented to me when i was buying SSis for my '79, "In many, many dynos, there was no noticable difference in any of the mufflers, that included Dansk and Monty." I had asked specifically about the differences between Monty and Dansk and I would have bought what ever he recommended. I also mentioned BA's results. And the comments were again repeated in the most polite manner possible. Lots of numbers get tossed around. I figure the guy who makes the headers should have a fair idea on what the numbers are.

His only comment was he thought the Monty was slightly easier to bolt up to the SSIs. YMMV

[RoninLB]

I picked my muffler because it was one of the two distinctly sounding mufflers I liked, breathing wise. The other one was the Dansk. so, IMO, the two mufflers sound different..

innee, meanny, minnee, moe....... Ron