Ovrstr and Cegerer,

I'm sure that your Cayennes are awesome machines. Everything I've heard about them is positive. They truly sound amazing.

We're night whining... just concerned about the direction our favorite car maker is heading in. Most of us think its the wrong direction. And the styling is very controversial. I for one, think it stinks. Doesn't change the fact that its a great truck, though.

I think the Cayenne looks okay. As time passes, they'll improve the design and make it a bit prettier. I see Boxsters today that make me *want* one, for chrissakes, but the first iterations of them still leave me cold.

Wayne: Sounds like you're a little peeved that they didn't invite you out. I don't blame you, but look at their target market: people who actually buy new cars. You don't. (That I know of.) And although you own a parts supply company, well, no, you don't convince people to buy new Porsches, you convince people to buy old ones and fix them!

I would also like to see where Porsche said that they needed to sell 25K units to "break even". I thought the quote was that was what they *expected* to sell. Linky please!

Last - on the question of balance sheets - you guys are smoking crack. Porsche is privately owned and has no motive - i.e. inflating a stock price - to cook any books!

Motion, thanks for the reply. Our favorite maker has been heading in a "questionable" direction way before the Cayenne was introduced. Each new iteration, the GT-2 & 3 as well as the factory specials excluded, has gotten progressively away from the original ideal, haven't they? Weight and complexity, aside from safety advances, has greatly increased, driver involvement has decreased and many needless comfort and luxury items have been piled in. One of my closest friends has an '02 Turbo and while it's an absolutely incredible machine, I still believe it's very far removed from the early Porsche ideal...simplicity. Hopefully Porsche will take whatever profits the Cayenne may generate, if any, and introduce a real light weight, high horsepower, minimally equipped and moderately priced vehicle, something akin to the Boxster coupe photos in the newer car rags. That would be progress!
As far as the Cayennes looks, she's like the pudgy girl in college...kinda O.K. but with abilities that exceed most others and always willing to work more to please ;) . Seriously though, in person and with a nice wheel and tire set up I believe it's looks aren' t bad. They're low key. The FX45 is a bit flashy IMHO and although Porsche could have done a bit better with the Cayenne, it's a lot better looking than a fuc#$&g Santa Fe!

I doubt they could single me and Tom out together and not invite us (or even respond to us) because of our roles in the industry. Heck, Terry Wells of the PCNA parts division is always inviting us out to dinner, etc. Regardless, it was probably just a poorly run campaign by some out-sourced marketing dept.

The article I am referring to was in the WSJ. I *may* be incorrectly quoting it, but those are the numbers that stuck in my head.

Although the styling of the Cayenne hasn't warmed me up yet, I like the concept of the vehicle. Like the Boxster (when it first came out), there really wasn't anything to compete with it (it was compared to the Miata, and the 4-cyl Z3, which it beat hands down). Looks like that has happened again. If the concept is successful, then we'll probably see a bunch of copy-cats again...

-Wayne

I have several comments to make here.

I recently did the Cayenne drive here in Dallas. Porsche bobbled my registration as well and I never got a confirmation either. I called the phone number on the form and had a totally disinterested person tell me that if I sent in the form, surely I was registered. She also told me the system was down so she couldn't check for me.

When I said I didn't know what time I was scheduled for, she looked it up and, amazingly, confirmed my registration. I never did receive anything in the mail or e-mail confirming my reservation.

When I arrived, they had an id card pre-printed for my companion, but not for me.

I did enjoy the AutoX, though the trucks understeered too much with the stability control on. The S was nice, but not special, and the Turbo seemed to take a bit of time to spool up. It certainly didn't feel as quick as my Mustang Cobra.

The Cayenne is a nice little truck, but it's just a truck and I have no need for one.

Regarding the sales of that vehicle, I read recently that the US sales of the Cayenne S are very slow, but the Turbos are selling well. Seems that Porsche's product planners ordered a bunch of nearly base model S' and folks figure they'd rather buy a Bimmer or a Benz for $10K less.

If the S models are optioned up with the air suspension, 20" wheels, full leather and such, them they sell OK. Unfortunately Porsche didn't build many like that.

They recently had a 60 supply of S models and don't know how to move them. Porsche forbids discounting them, as they feel that cheapens the line. What ever.

Regarding the stock exchange listing, wasn't that more of a US ethics thing? A legal requirement? Something that the exec's had to certify, rather than an accounting issue?

Regards,

Jerry Kroeger

Like I have said in a few posts, I have been driving one for the past 2 months. Is it a great car-NO! Hang out in the rear seats for more than and a hour and your wishing you took the grand prix! :) Down shifts with just a tad of pressure=-this will drive you and passengers nuts. Brakes are great, but touchy as well. God damn if that grease on the tires they put on didn't ruin my girlfriends pants and a friend of mine as well-whats up with that-use tire dressing for gods sake. The windshield had to be replaced because it was distorted half way down-made you feel like you were drunk. But it still cool in it's own ways. I think it's in the same category as the infinity in the way of looks, but the infinty is faster.

:confused:

-Mark - Porsche AG is absolutely publicly traded. I believe the family still does hold a large amount of stock. Management have some philosophical disputes with quarterly releases that, from an accounting perspective, are completely meritable.

-Haven't driven a Cayenne yet. I've seen several now though, and I must say, I like it quite a bit. Always hated the 993 in pictures too, until I saw it in person. First glance was all it took.

-Wife now wants a Touareg. We glanced at some on the way out of town for the weekend. Massive brakes, plush truck, too expensive. Wife's willing to drop 40k on one though - oh well, maybe next year. Off to VW.com...

Just to clarify - Porsche AG is a public company, sort of :). The AG mean they are public (as opposed to GmbH). The family owns 50% of the stock in the company, and 100% of the voting stock. 25% of the stock is preferred shares sold to the public and the other 25% is held by private investors (whatever that means). They were delisted from the Frankfurt exchange in 2001 (I think) for refusing to file quarterly reports.

Personally, I think this is a good decision. Too many public comanies are forced to make short term concessions to boost the quarterly reports so that their stock doesn't tank at the expense of longer term goals. As we all know, the investing public (esp in the eTrade generation) is fickle and will dump stock at a moments notice. I work for a software company that thankfully never went public in the .com boom. If it had, I'd be unemployed right now. But it didn't and our CEO had the luxury of investing long term to ride out the recession and not have to prop up the short term stock price. Now, we're doning fine and most of our (public) competition has closed up shop.

The Eagles have a song out about the Cayenne
which kind of sums up the whole argument

"Get Over It"

;)

I'll be going to the Cayenne Experience on Friday in Alameda. I can't drive since I'm under 25, but I'll be there with my digi cam to record all the action.

Anyway, remember the topic a while back about the recent porsche commercials being pretty weak. Well, I just saw a really good one for the Cayenne Turbo. It shows a Cayenne Turbo in the driveway of a house with the engine being reved and a woman keeps on peeking out of the windows of the house at the car in the driveway. Then a guy gets out of the car and picks up his cordless phone on the ground behind the car. He says some thing like "see, I told you it was cool." in the phone. It made me laugh because I have done that before too.

It is still not a Land Cruiser.

But I bet it will make a fine Ghetto Cruiser...although it'll have to challenge the luxury Sports Utility Yacht aka Escalade.

hahahaha, I wonder if those lame spinner wheels are available yet for the Cayenne....you know, the ones that keep spinning when the car has stopped. The ultimate gangsta bling bling.....ack!

WHAT?! Porsche is making an SUV? I hadnt heard:rolleyes:


LOL

Re the Cayenne:

First, it continues to amaze me re the prejudice within the Porsche circles regarding new models. I guess this is nothing new.

Some folks are making good time with many of the factory offerings (race program); perhaps some or many have read at Rennlist.

Porsche makes race cars, and good ones, today! TRG and others are winning major races. I am surprised that this fact seems to be lost among many Pelicanheads.

Also, Porsche has a rich history of winning major rallies (like Paris-Dakaar a few times) and this experience is embedded in the Cayenne.

The silly comparisons of US SUVs and the Cayenne make me laugh . . . robustly.

I have owned sevral modern Porsches and a lightweight '72 with 300 mfi hp, but unless you have driven a Cayenne TT, your words are meaningless, IMO.

I continue to be absolutely amazed at the seeming ignorance projected towards the Cayenne by some of you folks.

I would assume that the gearheads here would have perused the "white papers" on the Cayenne TT and then driven one before expressing the opinions on this board . . . but that is obviously not the case. :(

Kudos to Curt and the Cayenne group. I am in the market now for a nice low miles TT Cayenne. And I hope to sip some Espresso (with appropriate drink holders) on occassion as I drive my daughter to tennis practice or pre-school - heck, I may even have to field a cell call while doing business AND spending time with my 4 year old daughter.

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be; but times do change.

I wish all the old school Porsche guys the best, but as Dylan once said, "Get out of the road if you can't lend a hand".

I guess I expected more tolerance from a group already driving a car (911) that demands such tolerance from "everyday" motorists. It appears I might be wrong.

Lighten up, folks, and sip more sparingly from the "early car" kool-aide.

With love of all Porsches and kind feelings for the Stuttgart "Gods".

BR,

Kurt

P.S.: The FX45 is about as sexy as the 350Z . . . give that about 12 months before it becomes as attractive as the "next generation Rx-7" of several years ago.

Legends endure, candy dissolves.

1. Porsche has a very healthy balance sheet, so I have little concern of them ending up bankrupt any time soon, sure there is a downturn in the market but they have experienced worse.
2. Porsche does publish quarterly statements (after they discovered their stockprice was lagging in comparison to other german car manufacturers).
3. in may they sold 3008 units in the US alone (from 2242 in may 2002). Some 1400 being Cayenne