Targa Top Headlilner

weber92037 · weber92037's Garage

Has anyone repalced the headliner on a Targa top? Would appreciate comments on procedure, adhesive, technique, etc. Thanks.

Chuck
1987 Targa

alan911 · 07-01-2002, 11:23 AM

For what it's worth... I've replaced 2 headliners. Both were the stock-like foam backed liners.

On the first one, the mistake was using a Foam backed liner and that 3M spay glue. If the car sits in the sun a lot, or you fold the top, the glue will, over time (2-3 yrs), lose it's grip. And/or the foam will deteorate and the liner just droops down. That's why you're doing yours now.

On the second one, (see #1 above). I just never learn.

Don't wast your money on the foam backed liners.

On the third one, I used very thin auto carpet stuff. Its not really carpet and has no backing, but more like "Ozite". You can kinda see through it. It's not really woven. Extremely strong stuff. I think you can get it at Pep Boys or Wall-mart. Doesn't absorb moister and cuts down on rattles and wind noise better.

To start, just slightly collapse the top (front and back) so you can get to the clips and screws. Remove them . Take the old liner out. Use it for a pattern and put the new one in.

And the most important part is to use CONTACT CEMEMT in a can that you can brush on (any hardware store). This is what the pros use. Do not use spray glue if you don't want to do it again in a few years.

The trick is you coat both parts (roof and liner) and wait 20 mins or feels dry to the touch. Not tacky. Then you apply the liner to the roof. Center it and Press the liner to the glue points and work out to the edges, (5, I think). You'll see them. Be carful and line everything up because you have one shot and one shot only with this glue. Once it's stuck, its forever.

You'll see just where you apply the glue along the high points of the ridges in the center and on both sides of the top. Actually, you'll see how they did it when you take the old one off.

Since I never fold my top, cracks the top covering and removes fingers, I applied the glue to the entire aluminum ribs and boths sides. Definitely a lot quieter this way.

Typically takes about 2 hrs. But of course I've had a little practice.

weber92037 · weber92037's Garage

Thanks, Alan. That sounds like a good approach that will work well. I have used the black material you mentioned to line my Sears tool cabinet drawers to keep stuff from bouncing around. I don't fold my top either. It sits in the house most of the time. Thanks again.

FranksPlace2 · 07-02-2002, 12:17 PM

Alan,

This is great! My '77 Targa top is drooping and has skuzzy foam flying around. I figured the interior liner was a big deal but you make it sound easy!

Do I understand correctly that the piece of material has no seams, just cut to fit?

How much of the liner do I coat with the cement?

Describe the "glue points" a little more, please.
Five total?

Thanks

Frank
red '77 S Targa

alan911 · 07-02-2002, 02:34 PM

I guess it's just seems to get easier every time I do it. It takes longer to describe the proceedure that it actually takes to do it.

Cut to fit or use the old one as a pattern and DRY FIT it first.

On my "original" liner, it had phoney seams running from front to back. It was just stiching. No seams. The stiching compressed the foam and made it "look" like seams. You'll see it. You can get the same effect if you want to use the foamed backed stuff by just stiching lines on it. Been there, and did that. Foam stuff sucks.

On the cement, just paint it on like paint, don't put glops on it.

Put it on the ribs and on the same places where the liner will match the rib glue points. Essentially, you'll wind up with stripes on the liner. I don't remember how many. I think the center, and 2 on each side of center for 5, and then on both sides.

You'll also see where the factory glued the original liner. They are on the "high" points of the ribs only and all over both sides. This is done if you intend to fold the top. The liner has to sort of "buckle" with the fold.

More is not better in this case. If you don't wait the 20 mins. for the cement to feel dry, (I usually want to rush it) it won't hold. Trust me, it must feel dry to the touch.

When you make a mistake and try to remove or move the material you'll see what I mean when I say you have one shot on this. So make sure you have it laid out correctly first and start from the center and work out. You'll have to do some tucking-under to get the liner under the folding arms on the front and back of the roof. Collapse the arms slightly first to make it easier.

Believe me, this job is not rocket surgery. If you blow it you can just try it again. Total cost is about $25 and you'll have tons of glue and liner left over.

david914 · 07-02-2002, 03:53 PM

It would be great to see some pictures! My headliner is so bad, I'm not even sure what it should look like or how the edges are supposed to fit.

weber92037 · weber92037's Garage

Great description. I checked mine and it is exactly as described. You were right, the foam had disintegrated. It will be a fairly easy "fix" with that black trunk liner material. They sell it a Pep Boys.

FranksPlace2 · 07-02-2002, 05:19 PM

Thanks, Alan. This would make a great Technical Article with pictures. How about changing yours one more time?

Just kidding!

Frank

grant lyon · grant lyon's Garage

Just another view: PP has a good liner, 3m super works.

Rebuilt my top last summer. All of it. Used the Skin and Targa liner from PP. I'm fairly certain the liner material is (was) fabric on both sides, as in a fabric - foam rubber - fabric sandwich. Looks great.

Also, there are two flavors of the 3 m sticky adhesive. The super duty version (as used to bond the targa skin) worked just fine with my skin installation and with my targa liner bonding.

FWIW: PP has some very helpful articles on Targa top rebuilds -- including the liner replacement.

alan911 · 07-03-2002, 05:33 AM

The "sandwich" stuff just may work better than the original.

The weak link in the old stuff or any foamed backed material is, the bond between foam and metal and to some extent the adhesive they used back then.

Just so you know, the interior of the Targa Bar is covered with foamed backed material also. I just took mine apart and had to re-glue and re-streatch and reattach it to the mounting because of the same glue-to-foam separation problem.

Also, if you haven't done it yet, the sound deading material in the engine compartment is ususally an up and coming project for a lot of people. Note, it is also foamed backed and glued to metal, and deteriorates accordingly. The engine compartment like the black Targa top is subject to a lot of heat and I'm sure this contributes to the problem.

It would appear that a method of "sandwiching" so that any adhesive is applied to some material other than the foam, may solve a lot of problems.

Jdub · 07-03-2002, 05:40 AM

You want the double-layer material. Original Fit or Dan at Carsinc can supply this for about $70.00.

However, a bad headliner is just one indicator. How is your top? Is Summer a good time to go without while you rebuild it? I know that our fearless Thom has rebuilt his top (I did as well) and I am sure you can too. Very satisfying to lower the wind noise and have that solid "snap" when you bend out the arms into full lock.

John

FranksPlace2 · 07-03-2002, 02:17 PM

It may be that the heat and the weight cause the foam itself to fail. I'm not sure how good it is supporting weight (in tension). If that is the case, a double layer with foam in the middle won't fix the problem. Only eliminating the foam or sewing through the foam to a backing will work.

alan911 · 07-04-2002, 06:17 AM

Not to belabor the point but.....I think the materials that the factory used 20 to 30 yrs ago was quite different than the stuff you can use today.

Another example are the sun visors. The foam padding used there was an absolute disaster. I just re did mine back to show-room quality using more modern stuff. Cost=$1.50 Time= 2 hrs.

I think the factory took the low bidder on these things.

When I took them apart and poured the foam clumps and "dust" out, I woundered "what were they thinking" when they constructed these things.

However, all things considered, I guess after 20 or 30 yrs some things just need to be replaced or restored. And besides, I get a modest feeling of satifaction being able to sometimes provide a slight "improvment" on what they did. Of course, I guess, time will tell.

rickpurple123 · 09-04-2003, 11:25 AM

Hello Chuck,
I noticed on the boards that you said you used trunk liner to redo your targa top headliner. This sounds like a great simple approach. Mine is sagging and the foam pad is disintegrating. Could you tell me how you did yours? Did you use a single layer cut to the pattern of the origianl and just contact cement it on. How did it fold for storage? How is wind noise?

Thanks

Rick

grant lyon · grant lyon's Garage

Second the recommendations to see the PP tech articles on Targa top rebuild, and use the (two-sided) cloth backed material as available from PP. The 3M super HD adhesive works well/too well. You will have a bear of a time peeling and resetting the position of anything glued with this adhesive. Make sure to do a fit check and figure out the steps you will take set the material on the adhesive before you apply adhesive. Small detail: glue goes on the downward projecting ribs front to back and the liner material is stretched taught across the ribs. If you glue between the ribs and push the liner up onto that recessed portion of the top you will not have a smooth liner running flat across the underside of your Targa top.