911 vs. 240Z and Dino

[CHILI]

This pic reminded me of an article in a previous Excellence Mag that compared a 911, 240Z and a Dino. Anybody remember it? Very interesting since they were all 2.4 6's, but a v6, straight 6 and of course the P-car with the flat 6. I saw this pic on gogoracing.com. I know it's not a Porsche, but it makes my mouth water! I can't attach it cuz it's too large, so here's a link

http://www.gogoracing.com/photos/pphoto.cfm?PhotoCount=88&PhotoSetID=55

[CamB]

You sure it wasn't a UK Classic Car magazine (I have such an article at home).

Here is a smaller version for those too lazy to follow a link:

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Cam hit it on the head: Classic & Sports Car, Feb. 2002. Has an E30 M3 on the cover.

[CHILI]

Yep, you are correct. I dug it out last night. What a great article with some great pictures. I was impressed with the stats of the P-car. Esp. the torque. But, like the writer stated, if you can afford the Dino...

[brawlins]

Rather than tease us with a magazine article we don't have, why don't you post some of the interesting comparisons you refer to between the 2.4 911 and the 2.4 240Z. Thanks!

[CHILI]

Good point, brawlins! I even thought of that as I was typing. I will do that tonight You will just need to keep scrolling up to see the picture of that Dino, though. The topic of the article was something like "Is a Dino worth 4 times a 911 and 12 times a 240z." Although I might have those #'s wrong. I'll post some stats tonight unless someone beats me to it

[ianz]

Man you guys are causing me inner conflict....

I have both a 911 (72 T) and a 240 Z... still working on the Dino....

I'll keep you posted....

The 240 is my autoX car, and the 911 is a street queen, the Dino, a wet dream!!!!

It's hard for me to compare the cars as the ONLY thing they have in common is # of cylinders

By The Way...I LOVE THIS FORUM!!!!!!!

note from a newbie...

Cheers,

Ian

[masraum]

Yep, it's a cool article. I think the article ended with the cars all being good but different.

Ian, the 911 isn't the autoX card?? Otherwise you SEEM normal.

[ianz]

It's an upgrade situation.....

When I have a Dino for a street car, I'll make the 911 my autoX car and the Z into a gutted racecar

but for now

Zcar engine rebuild $1K
911 engine rebuild $10K
Dino anything....Priceless (AKA beyond my comprehension)

Cheers,

Ian

[jluetjen]

Dino's don't all have to be expensive. While I doubt that I'll ever pony up the $60K+ needed for a Dino 246 GT or GTS, for about $6K I could most likely by myself a fairly reasonable Fiat Dino Coupe with seating for 4 and an 8000 RPM redline or a pretty Fiat Dino Spider for $20K or less. The engines are the same (2.0 or 2.4 V6's), but the chassis are somewhat more "pedestrian". Either way you're getting the same engine and all of the associated sounds for early 911 dollars.

Now if only they didn't rust...

[jluetjen]

Oh;
Just to clarify the cars that I'm talking about...





or what I believe to be the very pretty Dino Spider...


The question that I have for any members of this board who have had any of the Dino's, how do they compare on the road to a 911?

[Early_S_Man]

There was also a Fiat Dino Spyder ... produced in the '67 - '72 era that used the same V6 engine as the Ferrrari ... somewhat of a cult car now -- occasionally advertised for sale in Autoweek ... had similarities to the 'Mako Shark' styling that inspired the '68 Corvette ...

[mr.bch]

Geeeze, open up some old wounds. I rember trying to talk my parents into allowing me to buy a 246 when I was 15. I had all my paper route money and was about 5G short. I had 6G, a lot for a dedicated working 15 year old. The car needed work but still ran and I would have had to get it from PA to MI. They denied. The most they would let me get was a 914. I was so bummed, I was thinking about suicide, frequent among 15 year olds who aren't allowed the car of their dreams. I wanted that 246 more than air. I had found it locally when I was at grandma's house for a week in PA and went and looked at it. Enzo died later and the prices of them things skyrocketed. Ugh. Cut off my arm and pour salt on it while you are at it. I still want that car, where ever it is.

[724doorE]

The dino is a sweet moma.... I think I could do the Fiat Dino coupe as well.... of course I have to beat it mercilously and see if it held up to abuse like the 911 will and does. I think we all know the answer to that one though

[pwd72s]

If you're 6'3"...forget the Dino...It and a 911S were roughly the same price when new. Roughly the same performance as well. Dino looked a lot sexier tho, a real chick magnet. No way I could fit in a Dino...one of the reasons I bought the 911S. It wasn't "fat" that made the decision, either. Back then, I was 175 lbs...pretty skinny for 5'15"...

[CHILI]

Here's some of the stats of all 3 cars as promised!
72 Dino 246GT
2418cc watercooled quad overhead cam V6. 3 weber twin choke carbs
2380 Lbs
wt dist. 43:57
195 bhp @7600rpm
165.5 lb ft @5500rmp
0-60 7.1 secs max speed 148

72 911 2.4E
2341 air cooled flat 6 (as if you didn't know, what the heck am I typing this for)
2250 lbs
wt dist. 39.7:60.3
165hp @6200rpm
174lb ft @3400rpm
0-60 6.4secs max speed 138

71 240z
2393 cc watercooled single overhead cam straight six. Two Hitachi carbs
2284 lbs
wt dist. 51.4:48.6
151 bhp @5600rpm
146lb ft @4400
0-60 8 secs max speed 125

Ahh the torque of the flat six! Fastest 0-60 time too! But, that Dino...

[CamB]

I always found the differential in top speed interesting. The Dino isn't that quick off the line, but jeez - 150mph back then was FAST. I assume gearing and aerodynamics.

[CHILI]

For those of you who missed it, I posted some of the stats between the cars last night. They are above.

CamB, yea, the Dino seems to be much more aerodynamic. But, then again, so does the Z, but it has the lowest top speed. Gearing must be it.

Speaking of gearing, my 74 manual says my car has a top speed of 149. I've had it up to just shy of 140 and it was almost at redline. Freaked me out! But, if felt solid. I wish they had the rpm's at the top speed in this article. Would say something about the gearing.

[Tim Walsh]

interesting.. look how rev happy the dino is.. jeez 7600 rpms for max power

[Bob Spindel]

FWIW, I have a stock '72 240Z, a stock '72 911T, and a stock '73 (same as the '72) 911 with a stock 2.7S engine, but early heat exchangers and no air pump. I've rebuilt all these cars and engines myself, and am as confident as I can be that they are all in excellent condition,i.e., I'm not comparing a high mileage or old car to a low mileage or new one. I drive them all, off and on, so it's easy to compare them.

My impressions:

The '73 with the 2.7 is by far the quickest and most fun to drive. It feels frisky, for want of a better word. This is supported by the torque curve for the 2.7. It's almost identical to the 2.7RS engine, although it peters out sooner. I don't have the curves in front of me, but the peter out point, as I recall, is at a higher rpm than I am accustomed to achieving in everyday driving, up around 5K or so.

The '72 T is very noticeably less peppy. (I used to have a '72 911E, and my feeling is that it was a lot like the T in comparison to the 2.7. But I didn't have the E at the same time as the T or 2.7 so can compare them only in memory.)

The 240Z doesn't compare to either 911, but their are problems in making the comparison. The the two body styles and suspensions give each a different feel. Also, the stock 240Z is a four speed, not a five like the 911's. Thus the gear ratios are different for each gear. My guess is that the 240Z and 911T are about the same in terms of speed and acceleration, but the T feels faster, and more nimble, even though the 240Z's gears are taller. I attribute this to the 240Z's body style and also the driver's postion. In the 911 you're practically on top of the road. The 240Z is more like a conventional coupe.

One thing in major favor of the 240Z is ease of access to everything in the engine bay. Sometimes I think the Japanese sat down and tried to figure out how to build a car that would make it as simple as possible for a mechanic to work on, whereas the Germans tried to build one that made it as hard as possible. (They succeeded!) Also, parts for the 240Z are cheap, that is if you need them. It is a remarkably reliable car.

For those interested, I'll try to post a picure of each.