Al Reed question- Concours quality?

[Neilk]

I asked a local shop if they knew of any places to get Fuchs refinished in Dallas. The only ones they could recommend were Wheel Enhancement and Widemans (sp?) in So Cal. I mentioned Al Reed but they had never heard of him.

Before I give them Al Reed's contact info, would you say Al Reed does concours quality work? I wouldn't want to recommend a place and then have them upset with the quality. If I get my wheels refinished, Al Reed is definitely good enough for me, but is he good enough for a Concours kind of guy?

[kzm]

Al Reed's can do that quality work

[rst73]

Al Reed and Al Wideman in my opinion are the BEST! They do refinishing that is an exact match to orignal factory finish. Al Reed is more reasonably priced. Hope this helps.

All the best!

Roger Grago
R Gruppe #27
73 RS-T
70 2.4MFI VW Bus

[Jdub]

Concours is NOS. A refinished wheel is not going to cut it in a concours.

That is inflammatory, yes, but the fact is the baseline for a concours car is something just out of a time machine. Even a new set of Fuchs from Wheel Enhancement are not going to be concours, though they certainly will appear to be to the untrained eye.

To take it even further, a Targa top with the original skin in good nick is concours, while a reskinned Targa top may look fresher but certainly is not going to score more points.

John

[rst73]

John,

Sorry but it has been my experience since the 77 Porsche Parade in San Diego that no matter what the rules are they are always up to interpretation by the judges of that particular event. Overall presentation seems to be the rule rather than "represented origniality". I'm sure you well know, some people will go to extreme measures to represent just about anything as "orignal" if it is to their benifit.

Roger Grago
PORSCHE Newport Beach
R Gruppe #27
73 RS-T
70 2.4MFI VW Bus

[89911]

I personally have seen a set of wheels done by Al Reed. They are very nice, but, I did see imperfections. From my own experience of refinishing more then 10 fuchs, I can see where some of the error occurred. The final scratches were not completely buffed out prior to the polishing compound. Instead of a mirror-like finish, you are left with a very brilliant finish that has a suface haze. Of course I am being very picky and is only because this happened to me when I refinished my first few sets and tried to hurry the process. Maybe these ones I saw were an anomaly. For a concours that is suited to orginality, polished wheels wouldn't even apply. Then it is a matter of how the anodizing and original black paint look.

[CarreraS2]

Originally posted by Jdub
Concours is NOS. A refinished wheel is not going to cut it in a concours.


John

Not true at all, at least in PCA concours.

Woods' refinished wheels have been on many PCA Parade Manhattan Trophy (Best in Show) winners over the years. Refinishing Fuchs is just a matter of reanodizing and paint. They can easily be made to be indistinguishable from a new wheel.

I've had Fuchs refinished by Woods and by Al Reed. I thought the Woods job was better - truly like factory. The Reed job was much less money (about half the cost), though, and was certainly a very good job that I was happy with. My buddy had his Fuchs polished and painted by Reed and the job was marginal. The polish was ok (the surface haze exactly as 89911 describes), and there were visible pieces of dust and other bits in the paint.

That was 6 or 7 years ago, though.

[Jdub]

Roger:

You give me too much credit -- I have rarely stepped on the concours field and speak from the greasy side of my heart. I agree wholeheartedly with your points and have heard the ends to which an owner will go to win the Big One.

That said, my point is this. Setting aside the vagaries and conceits of judges at any given show, a bone-stock RS with cracked sidewall Pirellis (as an example) can, and should always, win out over a primped car that features (again, example) new tires. Expand this to paint jobs, undercoating, whatever -- the original clapped-out version untouched is the true champion where the retouched can never be. I don't mean to be pedantic and I do believe most all of us would agree in our heart of hearts with my Quixotic logic.

Again, this is my personal ideal. Extrapolating this to this thread I have to say that, if you are looking for concours Fuchs, you need to look NOS. Any retouch is not going to cut it, at least at John's Concours.

John

[RickM]

My experience is that if refinished it must be done to factory spec....no more and no less. If done to this level it should be impossble to tell if it's NOS or redone. That goes for PCA, Pebble Beach or anywhere else. And absolute agreement that it's a judge's interpretation of many variables.

Ideally a new, never driven car that's many years old with original everything is best but either extremely rare or just doesn't exist.

My experience, especially w/ the PCA Concours, is that the newer cars almost always have an edge over older examples, wether restored or not.

Regarding AL Reed: From what I've seen after he receives your wheels he'll tell you if it's possible to bring to Concours quality or not...at least without providing your first born to attain that quality.

[sammyg2]

Talk to Al and explain to him what you are looking for as far as finish.
Most of his customers want a good looking wheel at a very good price. If what you are looking for is concours quality Al can privide it but it may be more expensive than the norm.
My impression of Al is that he can give you anything as long as you are willing to pay for quality above and beyond what is standard.
BTW His standard is very good but not absolutely perfect.
Pefection is expensive.

[makaio]

I have seen Wiedman's wheels first, and they are top notch.

[dvkk]

Last June I was at Al's shop dropping off a 67S Fuchs that needed repair, but was in original condition with the original paint scheme. At the same time a 356 guy was picking up the same wheel he had Al restore. Here was a unique opportunity to compare an orignal wheel to Al's restored wheel. Don't get me wrong, Al's work is fantastic and I will recommend him in all instances, but that restored wheel's paint pattern was wrong. The paint extended too far from the lug holes as it wrapped its way around.

[69 Soft Targa]

Here's some more info that may help.

Note 2 stage process referenced by Soterik.

Go Here

[silverc4s]

In the PCA they have Preservation Classes, and Restoration Classes, different criteria in each and I think we are mixing requirements here.

In my experience, the overall appearance of your car is most important in a local / regional event, not nitty details. Leave those for Ralph Lauren and those of his ilk...;-)

[kenrinc]

I'm having a set of early fuchs done by Harvey and I'll let you know when I get them back. WheelEnhancement has always been the most expensive so I "assume" their work is 1st rate although I have not had any direct experience. Harvey is up in northern CA and is closer to me plus he comes down to the bay area on a regular basis and you can arrange for him to pick up your wheels.

As for originality and concours, I'm a member of the GGR region of Zone 7 and both season champion in mid year 911s and recipient of the highest total points in concours award for 2002. As a judge, I can tell you from experience that all original cars are always looked upon as far superior to restored examples. Most of this stems from the fact that the local concours circuits use a subset of rules that "trickle" down from Parade but are not the same. Infact the divisions are completely different. At least Parade has an actual "restoration" class now which helps because the local Zone concours rules frown on anything restored. Case in point, 2 full points are deducted for new paint and new interior. How da ya like that! Why restore the car at all? You certainly can't win at the local level. Oh I guess there's always wash N shine ;-)

$.02

Ken Rinehart
2002 Season Champion, GGR, Zone 7
1989 Carrera 3.2

[rst73]

Exactly my point in my second posting on this tread.

All the best!

Roger Grago
PORSCHE Newport Beach
R Gruppe #27
73 RS-T
70 2.4MFI VW Bus

[cab83_750]

I thought rumor has it that Al Reed sold the business and has newbies running the shop! Is this true?

[rst73]

No Al is still very much in business. I picked up a set last week freshly done for Dick Moran's black 73 twin plug hot rods 1st outing to the German Autofest in Ventura last week. Al Reed and his wife were there too on Saturday checking out his finished product.
A super guy and craftsman!

All the best!

Roger Grago
R Gruppe #27