1966 Le Mans - Porsche/Ford

kstar · 02:15 PM

As many of you already know, Ford is going to build the "new" GT and sell them for under $150k.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/about.asp?bhcp=1

From my reading, it sounds like an amazing vehicle and looks the part as well, IMHO.

Specs claim 500hp (like the original) and 500 ft lbs of torque - no weight figure released yet that I could find (edit: estimate is 3400 lbs). Sub 4 second 0-60 runs and 200mph+ top speed; very similar stats to the CGT. (edit: 1/4 times should be around 11 secs according to car and Driver)

In '66 ford took 1st-3rd places while the 906 took 4th - 7th.

One will probably be able to buy two Ford GTs for the price of a CGT - of course if I had the cash I would opt for the CGT . . . probably.

A retro supercar a la 906 would be really cool if Porsche could get it out the door for around $150k or less . . . and perhaps take some revenge for the '66 Le Mans.

Oh yeah, Porsche should race it as well - especially if Ford decides to race a variant of the Ford GT.

BR,

Kurt

P.S.: It is interesting that Ford's goal was to beat Ferrari . . . and did so with Ferrari finishing 8th and 10th in '66. But Porsche sure was nipping at their heels! Ford did have an amazing run with the GT in the late 60s though . . . legendary indeed.

Bothari · 02:54 PM

A porsche is a porsche.
having said that, i must confess that the new ford gt actually seems to be a simpler, more "honest" car than the sculpture-in-carbon-fibre that is the cgt.

But that's maybe me, even as a kid i could never get the point of supercars, cars so good but so expensive that most of the production gets used as collection pieces...

Also, i must confess that (although nothing will ever look as good as a long-nose rsr) i actually think that the ford gt looks better than the cgt. It manages something almost impossible in a longitudinal-mid-engine setup: a short tail.

Of course a porsche is a porsche, but at twice the price? if i had the money for the cgt , i would rather get the ford *and* 80's 911 backdated into a '73 rs.... *and* a AMG e55 station, for the family

and probably enough left over for one of these

as well(yes, it *is* street legal)....

Kraut Wagon · 10-11-2003, 03:04 PM

Wow...good for Ford. Credit Bill Ford Jr. for bringing some panache and performance back to the company.

Sweet car...looks very true to the original.

5axis · 10-11-2003, 04:12 PM

Nice job by Ford, but I will settle for one of these instead.

http://www.carenthusiast.com/video/ferrari_575m2002.asf

resume dreaming...

911pcars · 10-11-2003, 04:48 PM

The Ford GT40 is one of prettiest race cars ever built... and with significant race history. Ford made a good decision to build upon it's success. Still, it's 60's technology with a current pushrod engine. There is no pushing the envelope here except Ford's surprising decision to do this anti: bureaucratic, pencil-pushing, bottom line project so typical of what comes from the big three (err, I mean ex-big three, GM, Ford, Chrysler). I believe Toyota is currently no. 3.

I suppose Porsche could make a run of RS Spyders or street versions of 904, 906, 908 and sell them for some big bucks, but retro is not Porsche design. The Carrera Sypder is beautiful and made with state-of-the-art technology. While this is way out of the reach for most of us, a corporate statement doesn't have to be affordable.

What's next, Chevy building a 2004 "57 Chevy"?

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

Carrera Charlie · Carrera Charlie's Garage

If you want to see a reproduction car that is all Porsche under the skin, check this out:

http://www.904gts.co.uk/

If i had the coin, I'd be getting one for the raw beauty and simplicity.

Cheers,

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

I personally would have liked to have seen Ford price this car at about $70K to compete with the Vipers and Corvettes. I think they could have dominated that market...

-Wayne

JCR · 09:38 PM

I never thought there would be a new domestic car I would lust after - but this one I do!

GM's Bob Lutz keeps talking about building "must have" cars. Well this is definately a must have Bob... can you top it?

Unfortunately, I MUST rob a bank to HAVE one... not THAT big of a must have I suppose.

Ford deserves a lot of credit, as they have really raised the bar!

PS - I've seen the new Vette, not even in the same league - or ballpark for that matter. But then again, no domestic has a true legend like the GT-40 to draw from.

masraum · 10-11-2003, 09:17 PM

The GT40 is right up there with the 917 and Lola T-70 for super-racecar drop dead sexy looks. One of my favorites. I'd be more than tickled to have an old 289 street version.

Chuck Moreland · 10-11-2003, 09:38 PM

I saw this car at Concourso Italiano, Monterey in August. I took some pictures, but can't find them.

The car looks very good.

My only beef is the weight; it is over 3000 lbs, the original was just over 2000 if I remember correctly. The new car is 10% larger in all dimensions and has modern sheit like ABS etc.

kstar · 10-11-2003, 09:40 PM

The GT40 did totally dominate Le Mans in the late sixties. It is a true legend; and quite a remarkable achievement for Ford.

I think the new GT is remarkable as well, pushrods and all!

It would be nifty if it was $70k, but at $70k we would get about half the car that the new GT will be.

It will probably outperform the cars in its class (all Lambos and the Ferrari Modena, IMHO) and be a relative bargain as well. We'll have to wait to see how it handles the corners, but looking at the specs I would bet it will be a sticky beast.

It's a simple, visceral monster - kind of reminds me of the F40 in that regard. Perhaps the kind of car many on this board wish Porsche would build. 8)

A simple 3400 pound, 500 hp mid engine two seater without too many bells and whistles. Huge brakes, lots of rubber and a bit of weight bias to the rear.

I just hope it will light some fire under Porsche's a##. I hope Ford races that sucker as well.

BR,

Kurt

cegerer · cegerer's Garage

There's a GT40 replica in AutoWeek classifieds right now for $35,000. Looks like a well done car ......

rhenriksen · 10-12-2003, 11:57 AM

I couldn't agree more on the weight. PORKY...

911pcars · 10-12-2003, 02:28 PM

Porky at 3400?

I think it's increasingly difficult to produce a car nowadays that is relatively svelt and still able to meet federal crash tests with all the on-board computers, air bags, ABS, A/C and such. Add to that the structural rigidity to cope with the torque of a 500 hp engine and you have a car that can be built @ $170k per with enough profit margin (or not as much of a loss) to make this worthwhile for Ford. I don't think they're in it for the big bucks as much as for the prestige factor. OTOH, if they increased the production numbers, they could amortize the costs over more cars for less per unit cost. OTOH, they probably losing money on each one they sell.

Talk about pork. Some examples:
Mercedes CL600: About 4500
Cadillac Catera CTS V8: About 3600
Turbo 911: About 3500
Ferrari Enzo: About 3000
Carrera GT: About 3000

It's kinda unfair to compare the weight of a race car (GT40) and a road-based sports car (Ford GT).

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

atlporsche · 10-12-2003, 04:36 PM

on the other end...

lotus elise 1900
honda crx 1st gen 2000
honda crx 2nd gen 2200
porsche 912 2000
porsche 911 (same vintage) 2250

BlueSkyJaunte · 10-12-2003, 04:52 PM

Hell, Subaru WRX: 3080 lbs.

Four doors, side airbags, A/C, AWD, and a windshield that rivals a Dodge 1500's in size!

SC-targa · 10-13-2003, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kurtstarnes
I think the new GT is remarkable as well, pushrods and all!
Kurt

No pushrods in the new GT. It's a 4 cam 32 valve engine, based on the Mustang Cobra engine.

Regards,

Jerry

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Who could argue with this? It's curious that the original GT40 got it's name and considerable press because it was "only" 40 inches high. The Porsches that vanquished it were only 36 inches high!

Never the less, I'd pick one up if I had the cash and the space to store it, not to mention the time to enjoy driving it. The unfortunate reality is that I don't have any of those things.

Oh, here are the rest of the GT40 videos.

project935 · 10-13-2003, 07:17 AM

Some former inside poop on the GT ...
1. The showcars and early prototypes actually used Porsche stubs, hubs, and bearings. It had been a long time in Ford-land since anyone had worked on anything so exotic and that could handle the power. They asked what would fit, so they got PET numbers.

2. Not much of the Cobra 32V engine is actually there - it's pretty much an entirely new engine. It has met some incredible durability requriements though - one wonders if it will ever be raced (don't know where with the supercharger). Most likely this engine will find it's way into future Cobras and Lightnings (detuned of course) to pay for its development.

3. It is heavy. I don't know the specifics, but it hasn't taken to forced diets very well. Modern safety/crash regulations to blame there. Its also going to be a biatch to fix if someone ever needs some major structural repair (anything above 15MPH impact) - complex construction and not as simple a design as the original steel monocoque. I cringe at the repair costs ... might just be a write-off.

4. Wicked torque/power and not enough contact patch. Gonna be interesting to see who can drive and handle it.

5. It'll have some weird super-car quirks. That's what happens when a car's development cycle is cut in half to bring it to market.

Would I buy one if I had the $? Probably not ... its just not the same kind of animal the original GT40 was intended to be - and I feel that's what made it so special. That kind of car can't be built the way today's corporate auto industry works.

But I wouldn't kick it out of my driveway if one happened to show up