total newbie has "first Porsche" question
 

Hi Everyone !

I'm considering a Porsche for my next play toy. I want something reliable and usable with a bit of luxury and a/c. I've been researching and it seems that the 1978 through 1983 911SC is a good choice, as long the tensioners and popoff valve have been done. Is there a reason why the 84 through 87 Carrera shouldn't be considered since they have some important updates already included ? Is there something more reliable about CIS vs Motronic ? Any comments or info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan
1967 Alfa Romeo Duetto Spider

Dan, welcome to the board. The 84-89 Carreras should be on your list if your budget allows. The 87-89 has the G-50 transmission, which in my opinion shifts better. You can find "a bit of luxury" in any of the models you mentioned but don't plan on having great A/C in any of them.
Most important you should look for a well cared for car, preferably with repair records and get a Pre- Purchase Inspection. The 78-89 cars are very reliable if they were cared for by the previous owner.

Good luck. Be prepared to post a picture when you do buy your car!

Welcome to the party...be ready to spend lots of time here.
As to the different models and years...for every member there will be a different answer.
The real answer is...it depends on the individual car.
Cars of the same year and model will be either good or not so good depending on the upgrades performed by the previous owner (PO).
My advise...go for the best car in thee best condition your bank account can withstand.
This means you will get some enjoyment from the car before you have to do your first fix or upgrade.
Good luck
Bob

Starting in '86 the vents in the dash for the AC were changed. The difference is huge between the old vents and new. The Motronic system is generally extremely reliable, fool proof, and maintenance free as opposed to the CIS which could have it's own board for troubleshooting. The 3.2 L cars are a tad faster, and have to me the feel of an older cammier engine than the 3.0L cars. But if you find a really great SC, and your alternative is a questionable Carrera, then get the SC. The most important thing is to get the best car that you can.

whatever you do, please dont ask what r-gruppe is.......

Dan, you may want to try a search of the archives, *search* button is on the upper-right side.

To summarize, thought. An SC with updates is virtually *bullet-proof*, but there are still gotcha's with exhaust-side head studs. Two flavors, 78-79 with smog pump, 80-83 with O2 sensor. Aftermarket exhaust and some *tuning* will make this a really fun car.

The '84-86 Carrera offers a bit more HP and Motronic injection. You can add a chip and exhuast and bump up the HP. Same 915 tranny as the SC. Some issues of valve guide wear leading to top-end rebuild.

The 87-89 Carrera is basically the same and similar issues. These came with the more user-friendly G50 tranny, for that *shift like a Honda* feel. (just kidding guys). Some believe this is the "End of the line" for the 911.

Can you tell there is some emotion involved here :)

If you have 15K to spend, some will say buy a killer, low-miles SC, others will say take that killer deal on the Carrera which needs some work. You should check out the 911 Performance Handbook, Porsche 911 Buyers Guide (I think that's correct, have not read it in a while)

Most important of all, no matter which car you purchase, get a Pre Purchase Inspection done (PPI). If the name Moter Meister comes up, RUN! Don't shop (in my own experience) at California Cars, Chequered Flag, or any of those other rip-off shops. Make friends with a local Pelicanite and have them mentor you.

Finally, the initial purchase is just the beginning. Hold on to your wallet :)

-B

I'd suggest a 964--provided the DMF and distro have been addressed. Great value and better AC than the SCs and Carerras, or so I'm told :)

Good advice from all. You need to decide how much you have to spend and go from there. Right now is a great time to buy, the market is down, so you can get more car for your money.

As a recent purchasor of an '88 Targa, I can give you an idea of what I have spent in order to get what you are descibing. I paid 16k for the car in August and then spent ~ 3k on brakes, AC rebuild, tires... You can find cars out there that will not need as much as mine did but they will cost more so it balances out. Expect to need a couple thousand in reserves once you purchase your car for the little things that pop up. I drove many SCs and Carreras and would highly recommend the G50 cars.

Buy the best car you can afford. There are differences between the SC and the Carrera, but they're not extreme. Both are great cars, and you'll get a lot of personal satisfaction knowing you've bought a good one. A PPI is a must. If you find a car in the LA area, TRE in North Hollywood is THE place for the PPI. The people there are first rate.

Welcome to the party!

I have both an SC and an '87 Carrera w/G50. When I want to have fun and just drive it like I stole it, I take my SC (It's a beast with a stiff clutch but seems very light, agile and quicker). If I want to cruise around in comfort and pose a little, I take my wife's Carrera. In my opinion, the G50 and better cabin ventilation makes a huge difference but it seems almost too civilized for me. BTW, what's your budget and are looking for an open cabin car or coupe?

Dan,

First off, welcome. I guess I have to agree in various ways with the other posters here. First you talk about wanting a bit of luxury and A/C. From my experience I say go with the 964 as was suggested above. This is the newest 911 type of Porsche I have driven, and it is definitely the most luxurious. I think that the A/C in the 964 was also the first time that Porsche really got it right (in their air-cooled cars). Plus they are FUN! I haven't driven a lot of super-sports cars, but I can honestly say that my Carrera4 is the best combination of speed and control of any car I have ever driven.

But I also have an '87 Carrera. I personally did not want to go earlier than the MY '87 as I wanted the G50 tranny and hydraulic clutch. I made that choice after having driven a few older cars with 915's. From the 'luxury' perspective you mention in your initial post, the G50/hydraulic definitely fits the bill. Also, one other poster spoke of the changes to the air vents in the MY'86. I actually thought that this also happened first in MY'87, but I might very well be wrong. Whenever it happened, it did make a difference (improvement) in the air flow within the cabin. Also, my '87 has functioning A/C which does marginally get the job done, but isdefinitely less effective than in the 964.

Finally, there are a lot of opinions about the problems 'inherent' in the 964's. I believe that most of these are blown way out of proportion, and have already been resolved much earlier in the vehicle's life. As such, 964's are kind of like orphans, and are therefore a great value. Not as visceral as the earlier 911's, but just a blast nonetheless.

Good luck and let us know what you get. Also know up front that you can be quickly banned from this board if you do not provide plenty of PICTURES of your new purchase!

Tom

BTW. those of you with *stiff* 915 tranny's/clutches, there are a boatload of fixes and tweeks. My 915 shifts really well and smooth :)

Just an FYI.....

-B

The valve wear guide issue in the Carreras is reportedly only on the earliest models dating back to 84 and shows up in the 60-70K mileage range.

Also... I concur on the 915. Ive made the necessary adjusments and changes, and now it shifts very well....like butta.

LOL. :D We DON'T want to go there again.

Wow,

Thanks all for the great responses. It sounds like getting the nicest car for the $$$ is the determining factor. I'm used to a cable clutch and don't need to "shift like a Honda". Since this car will be one of my two "toys" marginal a/c is fine. I just want a/c occasionally in this car, but I do want it since I work in the desert.

Also thanks for the warning about having some $$ in reserve. I have Alfa's so I know all about this. Luckily I'm a darn good wrench so most things ( 'cept body and paint ) are DIY for me.

I'll keep you all posted and maybe even post a picture of my Alfa when I get a chance. This seems like a pretty friendly board ( unlike the Factory 5 Cobra board - what a bunch of clowns and a##holes ).

Ciao !

Dan

The hunt is on! Drive as many as you can so you have a feel for different years. If your worried about A/C, go with the top down version.

Id say top down...but damn, the sun shines like a mother in Santa Clarita.

I was driving around there the other day and couldnt imagine putting the top down without a baseball hat and shades.

BTW my air condition stinks... most 911s do. Even though mine is the 1986 model when they "expanded the air vents"....the fact is that it stinks to all hell high. I couldnt imagine what the AC was like in these cars before they "expanded" the air ducts in 86 geeze... someone once likened it to "a hamster blowing on a snow cone".

Roll down both windows, wear light clothing and have a big bottle of water on hand.

Oh and Dan, if you're married, make sure you involve your wife from jump street. Porsche ownership can be very expensive depending on the mods you'll inevitably want to put on. It's an addiction and that's a good thing, in my opinion.

"I've been researching and it seems that the 1978 through 1983 911SC is a good choice, as long the tensioners and popoff valve have been done. "

Sounds to me like he did his homework well enough. Personally, I think the 'search' function here sucks. I even asked recently in "Off Topics" how I might be able to use it more effectively. Not much offered, so I guess it's rather limiited in its ability unless you want to read endlessly to find the nugget you're looking for.

Maybe go a little lighter on folks here about searching. I've searched a lot, but learned a helluva lot more by just asking specifically what I would like to know.

And Dan, as a long time and 6 time Porsche owner, I cannot talk too much about the SC or Carrera as I have never owned one. But I do know that the newer the car, the more creature comforts. I don't believe real A/C came about until the introduction of the 964. The newest 911 I owned was a '77S. It had air, but it was not very good and no one I met could make it any better.

I think the consensus here about buying the newest car that you can afford with some hold back for improvments/repairs is rock solid. I bought the '77 in 81 and it was all I could manage, but I got over 100,000 miles out of it and had a great time. In fact, had this BBS existed when I decided to sell, I wouldn't have done it. Water under the bridge.