Speaker change for 87 Carrera

preston_brown · preston_brown's Garage

Last week I acquired an 87 Carrera from a cardiologist in Tenessee. Everything is pretty sweet with this car, it is my icon of the 80's. Except the stereo.

The head unit has been upgraded to a in-dash Sony CD unit. Seems to be an early 90's unit. Pissed me off right away because it didn't accept a CD-R I tried to feed it.

In the front trunk, there are a pair of Nakamichi (how's that for old school) PA-302 amps installed, for front and rear. They have 80 watts/channel. Not bad. The door speakers and rear deck speakers are nakamichi SP-300 units. These are 5 1/2" (5 3/4"?) speakers with an additional tweeter. The "woofer" mounts in the space where the original speaker was, and the additional speaker surround provides a surface mount area for a tweeter. A crossover circuit is mounted inside the door to split frequencies for the woofer and the tweeter. See the picture(s) if you don't understand.

What's the problem? These speakers sound really tinny. Not enough bass or midrange. When I pump up the bass on the head unit, they start clipping/maxing out, and it sounds like total ass.

I would like to upgrade, but I want new speakers to fit as well as possible in the original locations. I would like to keep these upgraded amps, but I would consider powering everything off a head unit. I don't want a "bling bling" looking head unit. In the past, in previous cars, I have used Blaupunkt heads and liked them. The last one I had though was heading into "rice" territory.

What do people suggest?

RANDY P · RANDY P's Garage

considering that you now have an imprint where the housing went on the doors, you may want to consider adding a panel behind the seat or adding something in the trunk if you want bass. Since you already have 2 amps mounted there it probably would be best to do like an Infinity Basslink or some sort of self-powered enclosure up front - keeping the back seat fully functional. Probably the most cost-effective way to do it. Some of these sub boxes have high-pass outs that you can plug into your amps to cross them over as well.

Of course if you don't want to go that route and don't care about the prints then go MB quart Co-ax's ina 6 1/2" in the front. Fits well and when amplified that's as close as you're gonna get to decent bass without using subs. Think the rear is a lost cause so you can just keep what you have there for now.

good luck

rjp

PS: the crossover was just put there for the photo right?

MOMO3.2 · 10-14-2003, 09:37 PM

Preston:

Forget the stereo!!! The sounds coming out of the engine bay in a Carrera 3.2 are better than anything you will get out of your stereo.

My 87 Carrera came with a high end modern Blaupunkt, expensive Blau speakers and a monster Sony XM amplifier. It sounds average at best. I seriously have listened to the stereo for a combinmed total of about 1/2 hour in the past 4 months...

Good luck.

Mike

preston_brown · preston_brown's Garage

Randy: The crossovers are mounted there, inside the door, behind the woofers. It fits.

I looked at some of the blaupunkt component speaker sets, like:

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-DY5d2MbF5qX/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=76400&I=109GTO605C&o=m&a=1&cc=01&avf=Y

It would seem to fit and would cover the imprint. Not sure if it is really an upgrade or not though.

Mike -- thanks for the reply. I agree the carrera engine sounds sweet. Really sweet. It is the rear tire noise that is bugging me right now (3/4 worn Michelin Pilot XGTs). I might investigate some additional sound deadening for the rear seats/inside rear fender areas. I also have a Diesel F250 ford truck, that I have driven on long distances. I know what extra interior noise can do on a long drive. You have the radio cranked, and when you slow down, you realize how loud you really had it.

The carrera is my car, I gave my 98 Audi A4 Avant (which I like, really) to my wife as a daily driver. I also have a chipped 2001 Audi TT roadster. And a 1965 356C undergoing extensive restoration. All different cars, all for different things. This Carrera is my new daily driver, so while it doesn't have to be "civilized," the more livable, the better.

Steve W · Steve W's Garage

Preston, I'd think those Nakamichi speakers are pretty good sounding, but probably need to be adjusted properly. Check the speaker plates and see if there is a tweeter attenuation switch if midrange to tweeter balance is necessary, and make sure age hasn't rotted out the speaker surrounds. Then add a subwoofer such as in the rear to operate below 80 hz, preferably with a 24 db cutoff slope, and cross in the speaker plates above 80 hz. Take one of the Nakamichi amps to drive all four plates in parallel, and take the other amp, bridge it to put out something like 300 watts mono, and run the sub with that amp. Total cost under $500, and I'd be willing to bet that it would then rock hard running on something like over 500 watts.

DanTheCat · 10-15-2003, 12:38 AM

Judging by the funky rectangular boxes for the speakers, they are pretty old and I would definitely replace them. Amps should be fine, I would imagine.

For a head unit, I really like this one from JVC. I have last year's model and I really like it.

As far as bass goes, well, if 6.5's won't make you happy, (they sure don't make me happy) then a sub will be required. I will probably be getting this one from JL, because it fits perfectly in the space behind the driver's seat (I sit close to the wheel, though) and will be easy to remove. You will have to either get another amp, or follow steve's advice to drive it, though. Or, you could run the speakers off the head unit (what I do now in my honda, sounds pretty good) and use one amp for the sub, and ditch the other amp.

I'm in the middle of putting a stereo in my SC. I've decided to get replacement vinyl panels so I don't have to cut up my stock leather. I'm all for listening to the engine when I drive fun roads, but after a few hours droning away on the freeway, I need some music to keep myself happy.

Also, I wouldn't go with Blau speakers... They're probably not going to be up to those amps you have. My personal preference is Boston Acoustics, but they can be a bit pricey. The FS line is a pretty good deal, however, for the sound. I have a set in my honda right now, but I want to upgrade to the rally line.

Dan

89911 · 10-15-2003, 04:30 AM

All the tinkering in the world won't fix the item the car really needs.....a subwoofer. I've upgraded mine a few years ago and it sound great, but not as good as a Bose system in my GMC or the DSP sound in my X5. As a trial, I hooked up an Infinity BassLink to my system and it added everthing I needed to balance out the sound. The trouble is where to mount the thing as to make it look original. I'm not one to alter the back seating compartment just to add a sub, I'ts not that important on my mostly track car

RANDY P · RANDY P's Garage

Does anyone have a pic of a Basslink install? now I'm curious what to do to secure it? Might give up my sub panel someday...

rjp

masraum · 10-15-2003, 09:35 AM

You could always check out www.caraudioinnovations.com, he's a regular of the Rennlist email list, and specializes in Porsches. He does installs and also sells stuff.

rpiper · 10-15-2003, 12:21 PM

I have an SC with an Alpine head unit and amp, the Boston Rally 6 1/2" separates in the doors, and the Infinity Basslink. I got the Basslink on eBay for around $170 new in the box and it sounds great. Night and day from the speakers alone (which sounded pretty good already!). I mounted the Basslink in the trunk on top of the smugglers box. No loss in usable space (I have kids that ride back there) and it sounds great. I usually don't have it on, but for a daily driver, there are times when you need some tunes.

89911 · 10-15-2003, 12:43 PM

Do you get enough bass through the front end? I also got mine on Ebay for the same price. I was planning on putting it in the smugglers box but it was too big. It is a very nice, well made unit and great for a 911.

rpiper · 10-15-2003, 12:49 PM

Plenty. It comes right through the dash and HVAC stuff no problem. And it is under the trunk carpeting so it doesn't shout "RICE" when I open the trunk.

JonT · 10-15-2003, 01:29 PM

How does the basslink sound at highway speeds? can you still hear/feel the bass? I can't make up my mind on going with 6 x 9's in rear and upgrading my amp with the 6 1/2" Alpines I've got in the front or basslink. My car is loud as heck and I need more sound.

rpiper · 10-15-2003, 01:37 PM

New amp $200+, good 6x9s $150. Then they're behind you. Plus, the sound from any parcel shelf speaker is pretty rotten in a 911. Buy the basslink and save the $180 for the next set of rear tires you'll be needing. The bass isn't going to be show car volume but the 6x9s would be a lot less.

JonT · 10-15-2003, 01:42 PM

thanks Bobby

Steve W · Steve W's Garage

I'd disagree on 6x9s in the back. No airspace back there and it would look pretty bad. A good sound system in a 911 shouldn't have any rear speakers anyways. Again, add a sub, and use your existing plates as long as the speakers aren't rotted out. In 84 had a Targa once that originally had a set of Clarion Audia plated installed in the doors and they sounded crystaline clear with good imaging. Because of a blown woofer, I replaced them with a set of Boston Acoustics plates, which also sounded pretty good, though not as clear. Of course now I will only recommend Focals on a new install. If you get rid of your plates, you will have some ugly indentations on the door panel that will bug the crap out of you. You've got everything there for a hot setup. They just need to be utilized properly.

david914 · 10-15-2003, 03:01 PM

With the exception of the head unit, you've got some top notch equipment in there, "old school" or not. Those speakers were right up there with the a/d/s/ 320i's when they were new. Seriously, have someone who knows car audio check everything out (NOT a car audio salesman) before ditching the Nak stuff. You might just need a little tweeking and a decent subwoofer, but whatever you do, DO NOT get rid of what you have until you have a definitive answer on what's wrong. Trust me, you'll be kicking yourself in the *ss later if you do. Maybe Bell will chime in here. He does this stuff for a living. He might have some recommendations on where to go for a "tune up".

preston_brown · preston_brown's Garage

Guys:

As far as the speakers go, I may know what may be (at least part of) the problem. I more closely examined the front speaker I took out in the pictures above. The speaker itself, at least the driver, is a Polk. Did Nakamichi OEM Polk speakers ever? I doubt it. What also is suspicious is there should be a switch on the speaker housing body to choose between two different frequency response curves (outlined in the manual, which the PO was nice enough to include). The switch isn't there. I believe that there was originally a built-in crossover inside the speaker housing itself. The missing switch, plus the additional cross-over behind the speaker itself (see picture above) makes me think that the drivers were replaced at some point, maybe because the originals dry-rotted or something. The cross-overs may not be well tuned to the original Nak. tweeter/Polk driver combo.

rpiper · 10-16-2003, 08:30 AM

I'm not sure if my above post was clear. What I was trying to say is: don't bother with the 6x9s. It would be a waste of money. Save $180 and get the Basslink instead. The 6x9s would be a lot less bass, not less $$.