67 2.0 S upgrades

johncj8989 · 10-16-2003, 09:58 AM

My Sister owns a '67 "S" with the aluminum 2.0(160hp). Looking for ideas to increase performance.

Give me your thoughts and expertise on a possible upgrade to 2.2S p/c's...... or ....... building a 2.5 with 2.7 p/c's and what exactly would be required to do this.

It seems people think highly of the 2.5 version.

Thanks!

Rot 911 · 10-16-2003, 10:03 AM

Funny you should ask this because I just was discussing this in an email with another member who has a 2.2 S engine. Here is what I wrote:
Jeff, this is straight from the Bruce Anderson 911 Performance Handbook, regarding your engine "It is difficult to do much with the 2.2 liter engine inexpensively. You can put 2.2 "S" pistons on a 2.2 "T" engine, raising the compression. But to do much else becomes difficult and necessitates replacing the crankshaft and rods to increase the displacement. There is however, one conversion that, on the surface, looks attractive. That consists of using a set of the European Carrera 90mm (2.7 Carrera RS) pistons and cylinders on one of these 2.2 liter engines (can also be done with the 2.0 engine). The European Carrera pistons have been imported in fairly large quantities which has kept the price relatively low and makes this conversion even more attractive. The 90mm bore and 66mm stroke give a displacement of 2,519 cc's."

Jeff, Bruce then goes on to describe the machine work involved to get the compression back up and some other work. But that appears to be about all you can do to the engine. Of course you already have an "S" engine so the compression mods using "S" pistons in a "T" won't help you.

johncj8989 · 10-16-2003, 10:08 AM

Would the 2.0 S heads be sufficient as they are or would something be needed to make them 2.5 compatible?

dtw · 10-16-2003, 10:13 AM

I took a blast a couple months ago in a 2.5. This car used low compression RS pistons, a "T" distributor cap, and unsorted Webers.

It absolutely SCREAMED. Just think if it had been done up right...

Rot 911 · 10-16-2003, 10:13 AM

You will have to machine the heads to accept the to work with the 2.7 cylinders and you will also have to machine the chain housings where they seal to the crankcase to keep the cams from being off center. Bruce's Performance book goes into a lot of detail on this upgrade.

304065 · 10-16-2003, 10:36 AM

Take out the S motor and put it in a box.

Install a 3.0 following the lines of the "3.0 into early car" thread.

I race a 2.2E and my next car will be a 2.0 or 2.2 GT5 911R-clone. I've thought long and hard about modifying the 2.0 and talked to the experts (Steve W. among them)

The problem is not merely the displacement: the 2.0 heads are different than the 2.2 and later ones, the case would need machining for the bigger jugs (killing its originality), Webers would have to be modified, etc. All that costs $$$ and you would have to spend even more to approximate the performance level of an SC motor, around 200hp with SSIs.

With the prices of 67 Ss these days, the ability to revert back to original would seem pretty desirable, also.

Good luck!

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

I'm going to have to say the same thing. 67S's don't grow on trees. Box up the engine and buy a cheap 2.7 to build up. I'm not a big advocate on used engines unless they have all the records on what's been done to it.

johncj8989 · 10-16-2003, 10:52 AM

What about a 2.5 conversion to a non S 2.0 engine that is available as a spare.

johncj8989 · 10-16-2003, 10:53 AM

The 2.7 or 3.0 route will prob be the one she takes though.

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

the 2.5 conversion from 2.0 wouldn't be practical since the 2.0 case is weak and doens't have pistons squirters. It would be more practical to have a 7R case for the 2.7 or 2.5 conversion.

Bobboloo · Bobboloo's Garage

What John Cramer said.

Has anyone done a short stroke 2.7? i.e. Mahle 93mm P+C's(2.9 conversion) on a 2.0 or 2.2? I mean if one was to cut the spigots for the 90mm P+C's why not just install some 93mm ones?

Tyson Schmidt · 10-16-2003, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by l33t9eek
the 2.5 conversion from 2.0 wouldn't be practical since the 2.0 case is weak and doens't have pistons squirters. It would be more practical to have a 7R case for the 2.7 or 2.5 conversion.

Who says the 2.0 case is weak? If it's a '67, then it is a sandcast aluminum case, and is very strong. Perfect for a high revving 2.5 liter, so long as it gets the piston squirter update.

Bobboloo, I've been pondering that very engine for some time now. I'm weighing the cost difference between Nikasil 2.7 barrels and JE pistons, versus the 2.9 Mahle P's & C's. Is the extra displacement worth the cost? Tough call.

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

whoops ya tyson your right forgot about it being sandcast

johncj8989 · 10-16-2003, 01:06 PM

Was '67 the only year sandcasted, or was '66 as well?

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

If I remember correctly the sandcast cases were from 65-mid68

ttweed · ttweed's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by l33t9eek
I'm going to have to say the same thing. 67S's don't grow on trees. Box up the engine and buy a cheap 2.7 to build up.

I have to second this thought. If it is a "numbers matching" Type 901/02 original engine in the car, you should absolutely pull it out, lay it up properly for storage, and buy or build a hotrod motor to put in the car. You do not want to devalue it by ruining the engine when you throw a rod thru the original case while running it hard, sometime.

I also agree with the idea of transplanting a 3.0- when you price out the Mahle P/C sets and the cost of machining and other parts, building a custom motor is not a cheap proposition. Put some Webers, SSIs and an S cam in a 3.0 and you can have 240 HP to the wheels relatively cheaply.

TT

SteveF_911 · SteveF_911's Garage

Please, leave the engine un-molested. SWB S cars are very rare.

If it is a good original car its value will only be heading one way. If the engine is the right one for the car, you may be better off selling the car to a collector and by a project car to work on.