Head Stud Removal: Do them all?

Rot 911 · 10-23-2003, 06:14 AM

Last night I removed the 12 lower dilavar head studs from my 3.2. The upper 12 are steel and are still in place. All of them look to be in great condition. The dilavars came out quite easily. A couple needed some heat on the case, but then they came out easily too. My question is should I go ahead and remove the 12 upper head studs. I am concerned that if I leave them in they are going to get in the way or get banged up when I am manuvering the split cases around in the cleaning process. What does the group say? On another note, does anyone want the 12 dilavar studs? I'm not sure what you would use them for, but I am just going to throw them in the trash.

Doug Zielke · 10-23-2003, 06:42 AM

After discussing things with JW (In John we trust!), I left the steel uppers as is. They were in good shape, and all I did was clean them up with a Scotchbrite pad. Apparently, they never break.

And put the Dilavar studs on eBay. I'm sure plenty of morons will on bid them.

dtw · 10-23-2003, 06:51 AM

-Toss the Dilavars
-The case is really easy to clean with the studs out of the way. Re-installing studs is super-easy compared to removing them. If it were a mag case, the answer would be definitely remove them (and time-sert all your holes). As this is not necessary on your case, removing the studs is really up to you.

Rot 911 · 10-23-2003, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doug Zielke
After discussing things with JW (In John we trust!), I left the steel uppers as is. They were in good shape, and all I did was clean them up with a Scotchbrite pad. Apparently, they never break.

And put the Dilavar studs on eBay. I'm sure plenty of morons will on bid them.

Doug I'm not talking about replacing them. Just thought it would be awkward to have them sticking out and catching on things as I worked on cleaning the cases.

I like that ebay idea. If that guy selling generic rubber hood latches can claim they are RSR latches and get $300 who knows what I might get if I say, truthfully, "Created out of an exotic blend of metals, by the finest German Engineers at Porsche, to mimic the heat expansion and thermal properties of the 911 air cooled engine cylinders and heads. These studs were then treated with an enviromental coating to resist the ravages of even the worst European winters. These are the same head studs the good Dr. Porsche declared worthy of installation on the fabled 930 Turbo!"

Doug Zielke · 10-23-2003, 07:08 AM

I understand. I did not have to split the cases on my young-ish motor, so the studs did not get in the way.

I was astonished though, at how hard the Dilavars were stuck in the case. Without using the 'Blue Wrench' as instructed by Mr. Walker, I would not have got them out without snapping them off.
There was a *lot* of Loctite on them when they finally came out.

Superman · 10-23-2003, 07:40 AM

Ditto. Mine would have broken without the Blue Wrench. I did not replace, or even remove, the upper studs. Also, I deliberately avoided doing a lot of cleaning once I split the case. I did the cleaning with the case halves together. In fact, I would recommend to any amateur engine rebuilder that the engine be cleaned immediately after removal from the car. Clean it BEFORE you start taking it apart. The inside is easy to clean. The crud is on the outside. And I did not want to get crud into the important oil passages in the case. Accidental plugging of oil passages during rebuild is a common cause of subsequent engine failure.

Early_S_Man · 10-23-2003, 07:47 AM

Quote:

I like that ebay idea. If that guy selling generic rubber hood latches can claim they are RSR latches and get $300 who knows what I might get if I say, truthfully, "Created out of an exotic blend of metals, by the finest German Engineers at Porsche, to mimic the heat expansion and thermal properties of the 911 air cooled engine cylinders and heads. These studs were then treated with an enviromental coating to resist the ravages of even the worst European winters. These are the same head studs the good Dr. Porsche declared worthy of installation on the fabled 930 Turbo!"

Kurt,

To make it historically accurate, you need to change it to:

"the fabled 917 12-cylinder racing engine"

Never hurts to work in a little 917 mysique!

RoninLB · 10-23-2003, 07:49 AM

My non-pro opnion

remove all of them, timecert everything, new ARP or Raceware.

then forget about any stud problem forever..........Ron

kstylianos · 10-23-2003, 08:02 AM

FYI: CE sells an early steel stud kit for $100. Cleaned, painted and baked.

Spare some poor soul and don't sell those studs on ebay, give them to the punk teenagers with crappy costumes on Halloween.

dtw · 10-23-2003, 08:07 AM

Not sure why anyone would 'sert an Al case or install aerospace fasteners on a stock rebuild. JMO.

Jdub · 10-23-2003, 08:23 AM

Ronin is running a 2.7 in the Mag case, so that is probably where he is coming from.

For the alum. SC case I would think money could be saved by going with steel. I would use that money to replace the upper set if I had even the slightest concern about their condition.

I also wonder about cleaning the studs - isn't the problem that the D. studs corrode when exposed to air? Removing coating would help this process along.

I suppose cleaning them then laying a coat of something on them to prevent corrosion might be the ticket should you decide not to R&R the upper head studs on an SC.

John

Superman · 10-23-2003, 08:37 AM

I left the upper studs in place. Apparently, stock steel studs virtually do not break. So, I installed them on the exhaust side. Cheap. I expect them to perform perfectly for many many decades.

RoninLB's nickname should be "Overkill Ron." I mean that in the nicest way. He has drilled and wired all the critical fasteners on his car, for example. As a consequence of his strategy, he drives arguably one of the most reliable vehicles in use today on our planet. I understand this strategy.

Rot 911 · 10-23-2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superman
Also, I deliberately avoided doing a lot of cleaning once I split the case. I did the cleaning with the case halves together. In fact, I would recommend to any amateur engine rebuilder that the engine be cleaned immediately after removal from the car. Clean it BEFORE you start taking it apart. The inside is easy to clean. The crud is on the outside. And I did not want to get crud into the important oil passages in the case. Accidental plugging of oil passages during rebuild is a common cause of subsequent engine failure.

Good point Supe! Unfortunately I did not do this. My plan is to first scrape the gunk off the outside of each case halve, then Simple Green and brushes on the outside. Then B-12 and brake cleaner on the inside including the oil passages. Finally dry compressed air shot through all the passages to insure nothing is blocked. How's this sound for a plan?