What's the best safety harness setup?

JackT · 10-24-2003, 05:42 AM

This has been beat around alot on this board with a lot of different opinions. I want to leave my car as stock as possible on the inside. I do about 4 drivers eds a year. I do not have sport seats and I am sliding around in my seat on all corners. My arms and steering wheel are getting a real work out.
I bought a Brey-Krause harness truss last week and installed it. I can still take it out and my kids can get in the back. i want to keep the stock seats. Should I get 4, 5, or 6 point safety harness to hook directly up to the harness truss?

IROC · IROC's Garage

Well, you have alot of options. I think your two real issues are 1. How to configure the sub-strap and 2. Whether to attach the shoulder belts to the harness bar or not.

For number 2 - if it is the Brey-Krause bar that is designed to have the straps attach, then you're set. If not, I would attach them to the rear seat belt attach locations.

As for number 1. In your situation, I ended up drilling and mounting an eyebolt in the floor under my seat and - when using stock seats - actually ran the sub strap up around the front of the seat. This is not optimal, but it works. And you don't have to cut a hole in your stock seats.

The simplest option is to stick with the stock seat belts and use one of those old baby seat seatbelt clips to "lock" the seat belt in place. I did this prior to installing a harness and worked very well, actually.

Mike

hobieboy · 10-24-2003, 05:53 AM

IMHO, avoid 4-points as it may tear up a lot of body parts when you really need to use the harness.

And I would still use the factory belts on top just in case the shoulder belts does (ever) slip off. When I was using stock seats, I criss cross the shoulder belts behind the seats so they are tighter, but nevertheless...

304065 · 10-24-2003, 05:58 AM

Drew,

Schroth harnesses. Buy them from Steve Weiner.

4-points are useless, some people like six points, I've had them and switched back to 5-point.

I gotta tell you, though, you should swap out the driver's seat for a Recaro folder (SRD?). It's not safe to run a harness with the stock seats, because in a frontal hit the belts will slide off your shoulders, because the angle isn't right. They need to be run through a seat with holes in it for routing the belts. Also, the sub strap needs to come through a hole in the seat, which you can't do with the stock seat. If you just mount it below the seat, it will wrap around the front, and will actually pull the buckle forward, and not cinch tightly. You want that additional strap to keep the lap belts on your hips in a frontal hit.

Finally, the side bolster of a dedicated racing seat will help you in the corners. I did eight DE's with the stock setup like you are talking about and all I had to show for it was a large left quadricep (from standing on the dead pedal). Oh, that and a racing license.

Good luck!

IROC · IROC's Garage

PatrickT makes good points. 4 point set-ups are bad.

I used a harness with stock seats for quite a while and never sensed a possibility of the belts slipping off my shoulders, but I'm a relatively big guy so my shoulders extend beyond the sides of the seat quite a bit. I also used the "sternum strap" that came with the shoulder straps and located it right behind the seat to hold the straps together.

Mike

Victor · 10-24-2003, 06:11 AM

What about the theory that you should not run harnesses and/or fixed back seats without a rollcage? (They will keep your body upright and therefore vulnerable in a rollover when the roof gets crushed).

Also, assuming the harness bar is of the type that sits directly behind the front seats, I would not put my child in the rear anymore. Fancy copping that steel bar in the face? Could happen the next time an idiot peels out without looking and you dive for the anchors.

I think there is plenty of information on the dangers of unsafe installation of "safety" devices on this board if you search the archives.

FYI, I have done a fair amount of track work and chose to keep it stock for the above reasons. I believe in the theory that you either keep it that way or go cage, seat and harness all at once.

Hope you make the right decision.

Zeke · 10-24-2003, 06:42 AM

Why not a used race seat with rails to slip in on DE day? This to prevent sliding around.

BGCarrera32 · 10-24-2003, 06:44 AM

Quote:

What about the theory that you should not run harnesses and/or fixed back seats without a rollcage?

Yes, because its better to roll it and flop your spine all over the inside of the car with the factory belt and seats...

Honestly, 6 to 1 half dozen to the other. What's missing from the cage argument is how much better proper restraints and good seats are in a frontal, rear end, or side collision. Far outweighs any arguments for not having good seats without the cage IMO.

That said, obviously the cage is a plus. Also makes mounting your belts easier, and gets the anchor points closer to your body.

-BG

zzwhm · 10-24-2003, 08:01 PM

Use a 6-point belt if you're in stock seats. They attach to the same points as the lap belts. Neat and effective.

zzwhm · 10-24-2003, 08:13 PM

Oh and one more thing... be sure to use a sternum strap if you're in a stock seat or buy a harness with one already sewn in. Six-point Team Tech Ram Pac is a good setup for a stock seat.

HarryD · 10-24-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john_cramer
Drew,

Schroth harnesses. Buy them from Steve Weiner.

4-points are useless, some people like six points, I've had them and switched back to 5-point.

I gotta tell you, though, you should swap out the driver's seat for a Recaro folder (SRD?). It's not safe to run a harness with the stock seats, because in a frontal hit the belts will slide off your shoulders, because the angle isn't right. They need to be run through a seat with holes in it for routing the belts. Also, the sub strap needs to come through a hole in the seat, which you can't do with the stock seat. If you just mount it below the seat, it will wrap around the front, and will actually pull the buckle forward, and not cinch tightly. You want that additional strap to keep the lap belts on your hips in a frontal hit.

Finally, the side bolster of a dedicated racing seat will help you in the corners. I did eight DE's with the stock setup like you are talking about and all I had to show for it was a large left quadricep (from standing on the dead pedal). Oh, that and a racing license.

Good luck!

When I was searching for my solution, Steve Weiner was a tremendous help. While PP has a great web site, this is something that you need to discuss with many folks to decide what fits your needs.

For my needs, I decided on a four point (Rallye 4 Stroth) harness (I know the arguments) and a Stable Energies Guide Bar. I take the bar out if my kids need to ride in the back seats. They hold me in palce and seem to not have a tendency to slide of my shoulders. This is for AutoX. For DE, I would either use my stock belts or need to do something different.

YMMV

HarryD · 10-24-2003, 11:41 PM

BTW,

Behind the seat, my setup looks like this:

Victor · 10-25-2003, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
Yes, because its better to roll it and flop your spine all over the inside of the car with the factory belt and seats...

Point taken Intelligence In Motion. But it also 'aint good for you to be held rigid in an upright position inside the car upside down with the roof collapsing around your non existant cage. Well I guess your spine could then play a part in preventing a TOTAL panel shop nightmare.

North Coast Cab · North Coast Cab's Garage

ZZWHM,
Can you explain more about using the 6-pint set-up with stock seats. I've got stock seats and a DAS Sport bolt-in roll-bar and am struggling with the sames issue. I want better body control, less movement, and increased safety, but don't want to replace setas at this point.

John

zzwhm · 10-25-2003, 05:56 PM

John -

Here's the way the 6-point works with stock seats:

Shoulder belts attach over the bar to the rear seat belt mount points.

Lap belts attach to the same sill and inboard seat mount points as your stock belts.

You can retain the stock belts by replacing stock bolts with eyebolts that allow the harness belts to snap in so you can take them out at will. FYI the inboard seat mount is a problem on my '87 because the eye bolt hits the heater box between the seats. Since we don't need much heat in TX I took the box out (eliminating the auxilliary fan control) and bought a pre-Carrera boot to cover the brake and heater controls. The alternative is to buy a Brey Krause piece made specifically for this application which will avoid the loss of the heater control box.

The 6-point crotch belts lay flat on the seat and you sit on them. They go under your legs and connect in a V to the same points as the lap belts. To fasten the harness you sit on the belts and bring the latch up between your legs then attach the lap and shoulder belts. The tighter you pull your harness the more it pulls you down and back into the seat - this is exactly how you want to be held.

If you plan to do TT or DE with stock seats this is the way to go IMHO. The other "must" with stock seats is to have a sternum strap so the shoulder belts can't separate.

Hope this helps.