Help. Won't start...

[Mike Kast]

Sorry to ask this. I tried the archives but was only getting more confused. Maybe I'm not up to the task but I have to try.
Here's the deal. The last 2 times I started my car from cold it started normally but after a second or two it idled down, got ruff for a couple of seconds and came back to normal. Tonight it started for a second or two and stalled. After about 10 tries I got it to run for about a minute. It was horrible, sputtering and popping. Then I gave up because I had to be somewhere.
Where do I start? HELP! Thanks

[ruf-porsche]

Let's start with the obvious, tank full of gas?
Can you heard the fuel pump coming on?
When was the last tune up? Cap and Rotor replaced?
Do you have a popoff valve?, is it seated?

[Mike Kast]

thanks. Mr. ruff. I saw you answered a couple of similar posts recently. I really appreciate it. The engine rebuild has about 10,000 miles on it. I have to assume tune up items were new at start up. Leland gave me a new cap rotor and wires with the car. I checked the wires and looked at the cap and rotor. There was a little build up and I scraped it off. I have a new cap rotor and wires. I could change them and see. I have a half tank of gas and the pop off valve is seated.
As far as the fuel pump I don't know. I did smell gas after I tried a few times. It starts and then dies. I got it to run but it wasn't very good. I did here something that sounded like it was wrrrrrrring from the front when it was running very badly for a minute before I gave up. The sound was keeping pace with the idle. I never noticed it before but I have a very loud exhaust so I don't know if I would have been able to here it with the car running normally.

[ruf-porsche]

Hi Mike

If you smell gas it could be the engine is flooded. If the plugs are wet you will never be able to start the engine.

I would remove a couple of spark plugs (the easy one to get out) and see if they are wet. Check the color of the plug to see if they are black, sooty, tan or white.

If the plugs that you remove are wet or damp, than the engine is flooded. Take out the remaining plugs and dry/clean the plugs or replace the plug with new ones.

If you have access to compress air blow out the cylinders. Do not spin the engine with the starter. A spark from any of the high tension wire could ignite the air fuel that is being pumped out of the cylinders.

Note the color of the plugs that you remove and the location that you remove them from.

Wurrrring from the front means the fuel pump is working.

You don't need to call me Mr. Ruff, Ruff is just fine.

[Mike Kast]

first right plug is pretty nasty. Black goo. Looks like thats my issue. Even if its not whats preventing me from starting it looks like an issue. And yes. Gas on the plug.
Does anyone have any tricks for getting to the plugs? I have to say... The easiest one was a bittch. I have to get a plug socket thats just a little longer. Any suggestions on brands of plugs? I can't see taking these out, cleaning them, and putting them back when there as hard as they are to remove. Am I being a baby? wah wah wah... I was just reading in 101 projects that gooy black plugs are not nessisarily a problem with the way the motor is running, but it didn't cheer me up to see all that black goo on this one. Looks I'll be at NAPA in the morning.

[Mike Kast]

oooooooohhh... I did a little test run on removing the plugs. trying to fit a rachet in there is hell. I got to thinking if I could only make a something like a stubby screwdriver to fit into the plug socket, since most of the turning can be done by hand. I remembered(after a while, too long) I had some 1/2" square iron stair balluster cut offs that might just work. I cut one to about 2" and I was spinning out plugs like I was born to do it! well I got lucky for once... Now lets see if my car ever starts again.

[ruf-porsche]

Hi Mike

If you have the original tool kit for your car, there is a spark plug socket which you can use with a 3/8" ratchet. Use the ratchet to loosen the spark plug and afterward you can turn the end of the socket with your hand. I use an air ratchet to remove the plugs, limited area to swing a regular ratchet.

If the plugs are black or kind of sotty it means the mixture is to rich, if it is an oil black it means oil is getting pass the rings or valve guides. If you have the oil black, a leak down test can isolate where the oil is coming from.

I think Bruce Anderson would tell you to use the copper plugs and to stay away from the platinum plugs. I like the new Bosch plugs with the 4 electro. You don't have to gap these plugs plus there are four electrode for a hotter(?) spark.

Good luck with starting rhe engine.

Ruf

[makaio]

Like RUF said, the original spark plug removal tool is the best I have found.

[Mike Kast]

ohhhhhhhhhhhh... They already thought of this from the factory... Where you you guys last night at 3 in the morning! lol
Thanks Ruf
Thanks Matt
Let me get back to it.

[Sean Hamilton]

Hmm, plug condition is symptomatic - not the root cause.
Black soot? wet? ..... I'd suspect the A/F is too rich.
Maybe the AAR? Easy to check that with a mirror and torch but the engine must be running - bit of a "Catch 22"
Or the WUR? Or a Vac leak? Could be one of half a dozen issues. Hope like hell it's not the fuel distributor - $$$.
Good luck.

[Mike Kast]

Changed plugs cap and rotor. Still no good.

[RoninLB]

2nd pic missing info in 1st col. should read..

"Engine starts but stalls at idle"

[Mike Kast]

RoninLB. Thanks, Hey... I grew up in New Hyde Park, Glen Cove , Port Washington and Bayside. Well, really I never grew up at all... who cares about that though, I can't get my 911 running!!!

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Mike Kast

Hey... I grew up in New Hyde Park, Glen Cove , Port Washington and Bayside.

so you gotta have a well rounded dialect, LOL

and in the "corrective action" col. is a number that coresponds to more book info..............Ron

[Mike Kast]

Ok... its time to start searching for vacume leaks. I looked and looked and didn't see anything that looked disconnected. I don't know specifically where all the lines are though. I added some heet to the gas tank that I may have gotten a bad batch of gas. I also leaned out the air fuel mixture about a 1/4 turn. I knew it was rich and I don't know if it was wise to do while the engine wasn't running. I can always turn it back. Since I added the heat it is actually staying lit for about 5 seconds before stalling. It starts strong and poof... goes out. If I let it sit for 10 minutes she starts up strong for a little longer and then poof.
If I try starting it again right away, sputter sputter pop puff poof.
If I did get a bad batch of gas? Could the heet get the moisture out of the system without the car running?

[Mike Kast]

by tha way, What is the dizzy?

[ruf-porsche]

Dizzy is the distributor.

I would check the sensor plate to see that it goes up and down.

Did the engine ever back fire into the airbox? Airbox could be leaking that is another source of vacuum leak.

[island911]

Originally posted by Mike Kast
. ..The last 2 times I started my car from cold it started normally but after a second or two it idled down, got ruff for a couple of seconds and came back to normal. Tonight it started for a second or two and stalled. After about 10 tries I got it to run for about a minute. It was horrible, sputtering and popping. . . ..

Sound like fuel starvation. I would check the pump, and then the filter.

[Mike Kast]

I took off the fuel filter and blew it out to see if it was clogged. It wasn't. How do I check the fuel pump? I was just reading through 101 projects and I haven't noticed any of the symptoms mentioned AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! I don't know very much about this car. But I'm getting the feeling its a cold start problem related to air. What acts as the choke when it is started? Is there something that lets more air in until it is warm?

[island911]

Mike, there s an auxiliary air valve that lets air past the thottle plate (like stepping on the gas, more-so than a choke). . . but if that was the problem you could keep it running with the gas pedal.

You should be able to hear the fuel pump come on and run, once the air starts flowing thru the metering unit . . . what some do is take out the air-filter, then (w/ the ignition on) reach up and push the air-plate up. This fool the system into thinking air is flowing, causing the fuel-pump to run. . .and be heard with out the noise of the starter. The fuel-pump is up by the gas tank, BTW.

also check out: http://www.auto-solve.com/mech_inj.htm