Slant Nose Real/Conversion Qs?
 

I've been looking around to find all of the clues I can to see if I can determine if a car I'm looking at is a factory slantnose or not.

Here are the specs:

It's a 1988 Carrera, 3.2L 89k miles.

It has a the full turbo look body kit including the slantnose, wide rear fenders, rear air ducts, and spoiler.

I read somewhere that to check for cheap kits or damage repair that you can check to make sure the under fender area is textured as if from the factory, it does have this all the way around.

The paint was either blended better than anything I've ever seen, the whole car was painted, or it's really a real slantnose.

I tried to check for the one motor vs. two for the headlights, and it's all tucked away pretty well, so it was hard to tell. It looked to me though like the cross drive shaft wasn't there, but I may have been looking in the wrong place.

The end-all answer, the option code sticker, I couldn't find. It's supposed to be somewhere near the spare tire right?

Is there any place I can go to check the VIN to see what option codes were delivered with the car?

Also, one other unrelated question, they don't have it as having A/C on the sticker, but on the temerature control it has a blue triangle, as in going cooler and cooler, and then a blue I, II, and III, does that mean A/C?

And where is the release for the engine cover? (yes, I'm new to 911s :) )

The person who traded it in claimed that it already had the 90k service, but he didn't give them a reciept for it, so they're going to try to call him tomorrow and get the name of the shop so I can verify that. If that hasn't been done and I wanted to take it straight down and do it, what sort of $$ would I be looking at. (better to know before the negotiation of course)

Look at the underside of the fender for pie shaped outline pieces as most of the Replicas use pieces to make the fender. The cars that Jerry Hunter and I built have a one piece top. Steve

www.ottosvenice.com

when I was looking at 911's for the first time, i was too embarrased to ask how to pop the hood. the first one I looked at i opened the door and peaked inside, started a walk around and skillfully asked the seller to pop the engine lid and front trunk. carefully noting that the engine lid release is in the door jamb along the back edge.

someone else may think differently, but i'd be worried about the service intervals rather than exactly what was done at 90k. i.e vavle adjustments, oil changes, trans fluid changes, brake fluid.

you'll get lots of folks telling you to get a trustworthy shop to do a PPI.

Just noted that you're in seatle. ANYONE KNOW OF A DECENT MECHANIC IN SEATTLE? wwjwd?

Yeah, I definately want to do a PPI on it, I just haven't yet decided if I want to go that far yet.

It's at a Ford dealership, and it's priced as a non-slant because they don't know how to tell if it's a factory one or not.

I'll check to see if I can find the tell-tale signs of a multi-part kit tomorrow.

If it is a kit and not a factory slant, does that reduce the value, or does the value stay the same as a non-tampered with example? I've noticed that you can do some crazy things to 911s such s completely updating the body panels, changing the interior, putting a newer motor in, etc. and it doesn't change the value too much. If you were to try something like that on a classic American car, you could get taken out and shot.

I thought that the hood release might be towards the back of the door jamb, I guess I just didn't look hard enough, I didn't want to look like a rookie either since I had already been digging around writing down the VIN, looking for the option sticker, etc.

If there aren't any receipts for the car, there aren't any receipts and I'm definatelly letting that weigh heavily on any decision I make. Hopefully he had a lot of the work done at one shop and I can get their name and get a history on it.

Also, and this is just a dumb assumption, but I think that if it has 89k on the clock and he did the service before he traded it in, he probably took better care of it overall than if he traded it in right before the service was due without doing it. It doesn't mean much, but it's a little insight into the guy that traded it in.

As you mentioned, the easiest way to tell if it's a factory slant nose would be to look for the corresponding code on the options list. You can find the options list on a sticker on the underside of the front hood, or on the first page of the original owners manual. ;)

Oh heck, underside of the hood.

I should have looked up.

I read somewhere that it was right next to the spare tire so I was ripping all the carpet up and looking around, lol.

Is it a 3.2 carrera or 3.3 turbo? Very, Very few Carrera's were factory slants. The car I have is an 87 Carrera and was presented as an aftermarket car. 75,000 (85,000 now) that I have had very ;ittle trouble with. Does it have the oil cooler in the right rear brake duct. Does it have on head light motor in the center with
944 ish linkage of two separate Mazda motors?

Keith Epperly 87 slant nose Carrera Cabriolet wide body

It's definately a 3.2 (though I haven't opened it up and looked, the dealership couldn't be THAT clueless could they?)

I realize there are very few of them, but there is a chance that it is, so I wanted to check it out. I wasn't sure of all the things to look for, so I'll check on the oil cooler.

The motors I couldn't tell about, it looked like there was a shaft in there, but no motor where I expected it to be in the middle, that's the one giveaway that I did notice, though I could have looked at it wrong.

Is a non-factory slant worth more or less than a non-converted one? How did they price yours since it was a known aftermarket conversion?

I couldn't afford the Mid to upper 40k price when I found mine
so it was irrelivant to me. I would assume about a 5-7k
premium over a narrow body if It's done right for a job that probably cost $15k. Factory slant Carrera, my guess only a hand full ever made. Note if you are going to work on it yourself get the Carrera not the Turbo. Same goes if Money is close for repairs.
I can remember one slant nose narrow body carrera that was made the factory and used in a reprint ad during that period.
keith

I see, interesting.

This one is priced as a non-slant basically straight book value given other options. I was a little concerned about it detracting from the value, but the fact that it will at least stay even, if not be worth a little more is reassuring.

I wasn't real big on the slantnose before, because it tends to look kinda funky in pictures. Sure does look good up close though (except for the swirl marks from the buffer, gotta fix that)

I was reading about the problems that the lights on the conversions can have, so I'm going to check the mechanisms and see how they work. I'm not really good with machine stuff, fabricating, forcing things to fit, etc. I can fix a computer in my sleep, and cars in theory, but that theory part gets me every time. :)

I saw a really nice conversion of an RX-7 where they put in projectors and plexi covers that would look good and eliminate the moving parts issue, but I'm not sure how much that would cost to get done well.

I guess my things tomorrow will be verifying that it's a non-factory slant (which I'm pretty sure it is after comments here), and then tackle the service history / PPI part of it.

I actually didn't intend to buy a car for another few months until my current one was paid off, but so far it seems to be a really clean example at a good price, so I may have to figure out how to make it work.

You might try getting the VIN and calling the local dealer in Bellevue, they may be able to contact Porsche NA and find out what this car really is. This 911 needs a careful inspection as what it is, or at least is presented as, determines it's value.
Virtually every US spec Carrera will have AC.
You also need to have all the paperwork,as in tell the dealer that even if the PPI is ok you won't be buying unless all the paperwork, service books etc are coming with the car. Certain dealers regularly throw every single scrap of paper into the trash.
( I believe it's to reduce liability). Don't forget, it's YOUR money not theirs.

I doubt its factory, but you never can tell. We sold quite a few sets of fenders.Steve

www.ottosvenice.com

Well, I'm already sure the thing isn't going to have all of it's records unfortunately :( It's a Ford dealership that doesn't seem to know any better, and I don't think they asked for anything at all when they took it in. I'll have them ask the guy if he has anything though, it's a possibility.

The car has only had a couple of owners, and for a long time each stretch. (according to carfax) At least it hasn't turned over several times.

Assuming I can't get records, should that be a deal breaker? What should I go for if it doesn't have them? A good PPI and -10% off the asking price, -20% ? Any ideas?

I'm really wanting to get into being a 911 owner, and I've read tons, but it seems that you can never be 100% sure. I originally wanted a 90-91ish Carrera4, but the engine issues worry me a lot, especially since that stretches what I can afford a lot closer and it'd be stuck with me saving up a long time to fix it if it blew up.

How much are they asking for it? Guys on this board can tell you if it's out of line, or not.

Were you looking for a slantnose, or did you just happen upon one?

I wasn't actually looking for a slantnose in particular, adn at first I didn't want a conversion one since I thought it'd hurt the value, but if it's even value to an unconverted one I wouldn't mind having it. I always liked standard ones more, but I had never seen a slant up close, and I like it a lot after seeing it.

It's a 1988 Carrera with what is probably a slant nose conversion. (vs. Factory) 88,950 miles.
Sunroof, CD, Full leather, 17" (I think) BBS wheels, with new tires in the front and good tread in the back (wide suckers). 5-speed

They are asking $19,950 and I actually think they may come down a little after talking to the sales guy. They really just don't know anything about it and priced it to sell off, and/or attract potential Mustang buyers that want a sports car but aren't sure what.

They took this car and a Mercedes S500 in on trade on a used Navigator, so in reality I'm fairly sure they aren't in to it too much.

I'd steer clear of it. For your first 911, you should try and get a well sorted, well loved car from a private party owner that has records, etc.

How many 911s have you driven? What do you want out of the car? 964s (late89-94) feel different than Carreras. As for the slant nose, if it is a conversion it likely is worth less than if it were original...as such it is overpriced, especially considering the lack of records. But I'm no slantnose expert...I was never interested in them.

By all means drive it, but try a 964 to drive for comparison. Also, what's your budget? That determines a lot. Consider that you should have $2K or so left after the purchase to fix various things that will become evident once you get it home.

i think its time you post the serial number so we can check it out what it really is, I have seen some nice late 80's carrera's for that price, check the serial numbers the get a ppi, if it lives up to your expectatiions buy it, just remember, yuo will never make a profit, Kevin

That price seems high, to me. Slantnoses are a strange phenomenon, though. The conversion definitely hurts the car's value. Factory slantnoses command a premium, for their rarity, but the pool of buyers for them is small.

If you look at recent auctions on ebay, you'll see that even Turbo slantnose conversions from that era are having trouble getting buyers to come up with more than 16K, and the Turbo motor would normally be adding a 5-10K premium to the price.

I'm not an expert on Carrera pricing by a longshot, but I would guess that in this market a non-Turbo slantnose in good condition with 89,000 miles is a 15-16K car, tops?

According to Peter Morgan's The Original Porsche 911, which should be require reference reading, lists the slant nose was first introduced in 1981 (1) number made
1982 (38)
1983 (35)
1984 (34)
1985 (44)
1986 (52)
1987 (33)
The Option Code was (M506)
If you provide the serial number of the car, one of us can look up the number in this book.

That's the thing though, for the area, the price really isn't that high.

Here are a few examples of the asking prices in the area:

Dealers:
1991 Carrera - 66005 Miles - $29950
1989 Carrera - 39088 Miles - $29950
1986 Cabriolet - 41814 Miles - $27995
1991 Carrera - 81742 Miles - $27995
1986 Carrera - 60571 Miles - $25995
1988 Targa - 89137 Miles - $24995
1985 Carrera - 126513 Miles - $18,950 (sold)
1973 911T - 94518 Miles - $4995 (just for kicks)


Private Party:
1988 Carrera - 55500 Miles - $25950
1990 Carrera - 84200 Miles - $25500
1988 Targa - ?? Miles - $23000
1986 Carrera - 157000 Miles - $22595
1988 Targa - 84000 Miles - $19900
1991 Carrera - 98500 Miles - $19750
1986 Carrera - 120000 Miles - $18500
1989 Carrera4 - ?? Miles - $14999 (Odd, sticks out in listings as too cheap)

Edit: you may be right about the slantnose being worth a little less, I couldn't find any others locally, these are all regular ones.

Here is the VIN for the slantnose:

WP0AB0910JS120137

The serial number "J" = 1988 which is correct. According to Peter Morgan, factory slantnose conversions done to Carreras are as follows:
from 1984-87
1984 (1)
1985 (2)
1986 (1)
1987 (5)
1988 only conversions were to Turbo models as listed in my previous post.

So, the car that you are looking at is probably an aftermarket conversion

Prices are dropping on these cars. And as such, there are going to be some big gaps between asking prices and selling prices. Carreras are still all over the map, and condition seems to make a huge difference. But it's definitely a buyer's market, still.

Hopefully some people who have done some Carrera shopping recently will chime in, here.

Besides verifying the VIN and the M505 option code, some other easy to spot features of factory slants are:

- Oil cooler in passenger-side rear wheel well vent with a Carrera-style cooling fan mounted on the bottom of the cooler. I seem to recall reading that some had a cooler in each vent. Not sure about that though.
- Wooden slats/shark fins (3 in each vent)
- Welded jack tube extension for jack plate in each boxed rocker.
- Steel fenders with 7 air vents on top of each.
- Can't recall the original make at the moment but the head lamp motors should not be of Japanese origin.

If it's authentic, 19K is not such a bad price if the mechanicals checks out. With the soft market around here, you can probably talk the dealer down a bit.

I don't want to get in a hasle with those of you that don,t think the slant is "THE" 911 to have so lets concentrate on the car
88 carrera- one of the best of that period, g-50, 3.2 mtr
how can you go wrong and in most places you will have the only
slant around, I like being the stand out. put some 9 and 11 fikse's on it and let the rest drool.$19,000.00 sounds like a steal to me.

Keith Epperly

Wade,
All the details you mention are not necessarily present on a Flatnose conversion car. Each builder or part supplier configured these things differently or used a variety of materials. For instance:
I've never seen wooden brake vent fins...just Resin, FG and steel.
The oil coolers come in every configuration known to man.
The louvered vents can be of any number or none.
The motors typically used were Mazda RX-7 motors.
Adapters were used extensively as opposed to extending the "Jack Tube"

Mystic, if you're considering a conversion car, which this is, bring someone along who knows what goes into this job. There are TONS of hacked "Slantnoses" out there. On the other hand, there are some conversions done with expensive factory parts. However these are uncommon.

As mentioned, if you like the car and it was well done then treat it like any other informed car purchase. Drive other cars for comparison. If you come back to this car get a PPI, Carfax and whatever info possible. If it pans out then negotiate a good deal.

the prices you list are asking prices. First off...forget the dealer prices. Way higher than market. They are depending on the clueless buyer to come in and buy a nice shiny 911. Records? Don't need them. PPI? We can't allow it off the lot, but our mechanic has "checked it out" for you.

As for the private party ads, again that is asking price and I'll lay money that the ones on the higher end of the spectrum have been trying to sell for some time. The market is depressed. GREAT cars can sell quickly. The problem is there aren't many great cars out there...lots of tired dogs and many so-so.

These cars are now getting to the "old car" status, and as such, condition is EVERYTHING. The ad, even with mileage listed and the owner saying "needs nothing" really doesn't mean anything until you see it, and a good mechanic checks it. Remember, you are buying the previous owner. I think you're best off finding a good one (owner and car). And it will take some time.

Rick, I think what Wade was saying is that those were things to look for on the factory slantnose versions. The slats were actually made out of wood for the factory versions. I didn't believe it, but upon investigation, it is indeed true.

Didn't mean to barge into the conversation, just wanted to clarify.

Timothy

Hmm, I'll check the slats to see if they are wood or not, at this point it seems like it's probably not a factory one though.

The slats on the hood, how many are there supposed to be? I realize the kits are different, but what should the kit be matching?

I'll keep my eyes open and look around some more, I really wasn't planning on getting this one unless I could get it for around $18k maybe and everything checked out, or if it was a real slant and they didn't have it priced as such.

I haven't talked to the salesman again since he was off yesterday, but when talking to him on Monday he seemed pretty easy going. I don't think that taking the car off of the lot to do a PPI would really be too much trouble.

I also got the feeling that they didn't really want to keep it around, but on the other hand, he was real mellow about it and not in sales mode at all. (Though that could have been because I wasn't down there)

Since I wasn't planning on buying one just yet anyways, I think I may go drive it and then just sit on it and wait. They are bound to be more flexible a couple of weeks down the road, and I know that the cars aren't selling like hotcakes because I've been watching the ads for about 2-3 months now and have seen inventory change.

I'm starting to get a feel of which ones are a better deal then others, as indicated by coming and going out of inventory.

I'm amazed at how much help I've had so far on this board. It's a seriously fast mover for such a narrow topic. I couldn't even find a good Honda board (I have a Prelude, not a Civic, makes a difference) for my car when I was looking for one.

Tim,

You're right, Wade did mention those as Factory tip-offs. However the later special wishes cars had the oil cooler in the rear vent....all previous versions had a cooler up front. The reason I know this is because I spent two years researching and doing my own conversion. I modeled much of my work from a friend's factory euro 930s. I also spoke to the Porsche technical reps at length while attending the NYC Auto Show in '88. I could have sworn the brake vent fins were resin...hmmm.

Mystic: This thread is worth reading... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132839&highlight=slantn ose

Rick M,
Did you relocate the oil coole into the right rear brake duct as I did?
I would be interesting to compare the end results, I took several photos
but I'll be darned if I can figure out how to post them from disc.

Keith Epperly 87 slant nose cabriolet wide body carrera

heres the next step, square headlights (Mazda), you will probably have problems, round head lights, a lot of those cars were built pretty well, Kevin