911 vs 928 -or- why should I switch
 

I am currently driving a 1980 928 that I got at a good price, fixed the mechanical stuff and now I'm ready to paint. When finished I plan to upgrade, but here is my question. For the money I spend getting into a 87 to 90 928s4 what kind of 911 can I expect to find ?, :confused: or why would I want to......Hmmmm ?

How much are you looking to spend. 928's are generally cheap to get into, but murder to maintain.

'78-83 $10-18K
'84-'89 $14-25K
'90-94 $22-40k

The thing to remember is that they are completely different cars, they won't feel anything alike to drive, so what are you looking for? Drive a 911 and see which you prefer.

Wouldn't it be great if you lived close to someone that had a 911 that wasn't disassembled and strung out on sawhorses?...;)

Big difference in driving feel, and that includes the difference between 911 years as well. Early, light and agile. Later, higher speed cruisers with power steering. Plus there's the rear engine thing which takes getting used to (or so i'm told since i haven't DEed my car yet).

I'm guessing a 928S4 would cost you in the 15-20K range?

For that money, you would get a very nice 82-84 911SC, or a higher mileage but still nice 84-88 Carrera. Or a ratty 964. 993 is probably out of the question.

What do you use the car for? The 911 is not as comfy a highway cruiser. But if you have several hairpin turns on your way to work, you will get there faster in a 911. :)

My budget is 10-12k, and when I say upgrade I mean performance not curb appeal. I am not afraid to drive a fast ugly car.

Your right, an s4 will be about 15k

What sort of performance? the 928 makes a good dragster and highway hauler, the 911 isn't designed to be a dragster, but will probably drive circles around a 928

For 10-12K you will get an early SC which will put you in the low to mid 6's for 0-60 if you really hammer the car.

Upgrading performance by going from a 928 to a 911 is like trading in your yacht for a sailboat or maybe even more accurately trading in your learjet for a high performance acrobatic plane, they are both fast, but in completely different ways.

I have both a 928 Euro S2 and a 71 911. All I can say is both are so different. My 928 is very very fast (stayed right next to a modified 930 on one of our club drives), very quiet and very comforable. However my 911 is quick, light nimble, and loud. I like them both, but I am thinking the 928 may go in spring because I just have more fun driving the 911 and you can't drive that fast on public roads in the US.

On the other hand the low slung exotic look and feel of the 928 is very cool. Although more people recognize the 911 and acknowledge it as a Porsche. What I always say is drive both on the same day and there won't be a decision to make. You will know which one you want.....or you will get them both. :-)

This definitely increases your choice of vehicles! :D

The 928 GT is very nice and very overlooked.

5 speed manual, 330HP.

i'll stay out of this for a change.

928 was my dream car for years following "risky business", i would still love to have one.

depends what you're after, a comfortable tourer, or a more focused sports car?

The manual trans 928's can be a real pain to find, most of the 928's that I see are automatics.

I'd love to have a manual 345hp 928 GTS, but I have other things to get before that.

I had an '86 5 speed 928 for two years. I loved it. It was a third car, but I ended up driving it a lot because it was so fun and comfortable, especially with the manual tranny.

I wouldn't call it a pain to maintain, just not cheap. Mine wasn't any less reliable than my current 911, it was the parts prices that got me.

Everyone is right, they are very different cars. I would love to have both, especially here in Germany. My 911 is nothing special on the autobahn, it's a machine for the twisties. A 928 would be perfect (ideally a GTS). I miss it a lot.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1068842644.jpg

982S4 and 928GTS are very appealing cars. It would take a very special 911 to be a lot more appealing.

This is proving to be much more interesting than I imagined.;)

I have always loved the look of the 928.

But isn't this an apples and oranges argument? It is GT versus skateboard. Cush versus spartan to some degree.

If I were you, I'd drive as many 911s as you can, longhoods to Carreras, and get a sense if you like to wrestle with the 915 trans, etc.

Certainly there is a wealth of information on the 911 and parts have got to be easier to find used in good shape, so you'd have that going for you.

But try the 911 and see how it fits. You may miss the stowage space and arm room.

Best of luck,
John

Actually if performance is your goal stay away from the S4 manuals. The gearing in the S4s isn't great. The 82-85 Euros and the GT/GTS had the better final drive which made them more fun at lower speeds. All the 87-89 S4s I have driven in manuals have been dissapointing because the 2.21 R&P just kill first and second. Now if you just want the newest 928 you can afford and like the newer looks go for the S4s. They have that updated timeless look. However, if you plan on supercharging it like some of the guys are doing now you would probably want the S4 for the taller gears.

As for the cost of parts, I would say with the big three (928 intl, 928 sp, and Devek) the cost of owning a 928 is coming down. Not to mention there are a few savy 928 owners that are either making parts themselves (and reselling them) or have found many aftermarket adaptable replacement parts. As long as you or your mechanic sources parts through one of those venders the costs are about on par with 911 parts. If you go to the dealer you know the story. Just like any other commodity once the supply exceeds demand the prices fall.

BTW one of the guys on the 928 list just dynoed his stock 87 S4 with a vortec charger and turned 512hp at the rear wheels. I had a ride in a similar car last year and lets just say I was impressed.

Edit for P Porn
http://www.quazkap.com/images/porsche/9281.jpg

Two different cars.
Gotta drive both & read up on their histories.
I remember or at least I think, that at one point Porsche advertised the 928 as the alternative to plane travel. (for short flights at least)

I think the 928S4 and 928GTS would be excellent choices for performance touring cars. Roomier than the 911's and quite comfortable for long hauls, what a way to see the country side. <br>I love 911's but for a long road trips 928's would take my vote. I hope to own one within a few years.

What type of driving are yo going to do? I loved my 89 S4 on the highway, it was big, fast and comfortable. However, I wanted to do DE and autocross so it is now gone and I am back in a 911.

Jeff

600 flywheel ponies anyone?
http://www.quazkap.com/images/porsche/S4SC.jpg

There's no doubt, 600 HP would be awesome!

I would have one if I had:
A) enough $
B) the space to store another car
C) I had all the 911's I want
D) the time to drive another car.

?????

I bought my 1982 SC to be my comfy highway cruiser...

My other Porsche is my 914/6!!!

James

Re: 911 vs 928 -or- why should I switch
 

Here is my two cents: The problem isn't the initial buy. The problem is that the 928 is overall less desirable than the 911 and won't hold it's value as well. I learned the hard way that you don't want to spend your time and your hard earned on something that will not even remotely get you any of the $ back when it is time for a new toy. Again, this is just an opinion on one small aspect.

Cheers, George

The values of the 928s (with the exception of the GTS) have pretty much bottomed out. Just like any other Porsche as long as you get a PPI or know what you are looking for you will avoid the money pit cars. As a matter of fact if you can pick one up right you can come out ahead. Just stay away from the high dollar car +$25K and the very low dollar cars <$5000 as a rule of thumb. I wouldn't be afraid of 928s for resale value. I am always scared of them when they are severly neglected by their POs.

I'll take this sideways and suggest a 944 turbo for that price range and requirement.

Here is my argument: 10-12K is not enough money to get a truly fast, nicer 928 or 911, but it will buy a very fast and nice 951. I’ve had some experience with modified versions of all three cars. I’m on my third 951, I’ve got a modified 911 and I’ve driven my friend’s very quick modified 928 a fair bit (we ran One Lap of America in it a few years ago). My second 951, my current 911 and my friend’s 928 make a good comparison to illustrate my point. All three cars are somewhat similar in terms of both straight line speed and speed around the track. The all have setup coil-over suspension, big brakes, and significant engine modifications:

’87 951- 3050 lbs, 330 rwhp, estimated used value $14000
’70 911- 2200 lb (stripped), 225 rwhp, estimated used value $25000
’88 928 S4 -3150 lbs (stripped), 290 rwhp, estimated used value $20000

Around the track the 911 and 951 would compete for fastest lap- the 911 puts power down better, but the 944 is better in high speed sweepers and is faster down the straights. The 928 or 944 would be easiest to drive at the track. The 911 is much faster at an autocross. The 911 would be fastest briefly in a stoplight drag on the street, but the 944 would be significantly faster than the 911 as the speed increases and in a roll on (freeway speed). Both cars would leave the 928 in a straight line. I have the most fun driving the 911 on the street.

Not only is the 951 the quickest car in a straight line, but it was also the most streetable- it was significantly less stripped than the other cars. The downsides:
The 951 is arguably the least fun to drive on the street due to turbo lag and the need to go insanely fast to feel involved, though the 928’s slow steering and weight also made it less involving.
The maintenance cost of the 951 at this state of tune are the highest of the three in my opinion.

Basically unless you know you don’t want a 951 I’d strongly suggest you check one out. I’d recommend you buy one already modified (just make sure they did it right) to keep the final costs down. Make sure they kept up with the maintenance. In this price range I think it’s the smart buy.

Holy Cow! A 951 weighs over 3000 lbs?

They're so small (I had an '84 944 for a year before my 911 obsession began)...I can't believe they are that heavy.

Yea, they scale much heavier than you would think, especially the later years. Bone stock with a full tank that car was 3100. The '86s are lighter, and you can pull out almost 300 by stripping the interior and non essentials (depending on what options you have). Thus an '86 can be closer to 2700 with a racing bucket and nothing in it, and that's before you start spending money to lighten it. The problem is all the easy weight to pull is over the rear wheels, so the handling and power down starts to be an issue when you do it the simple way...

My chipped '89 944 Turbo was always beseiged by buzzy Civics and other 'boy racer' cars on the highway, until I had a license frame made up that read:

"305 HP, 2995 lbs.
You Do the Math"

After that the little buzz bombs would rush up on my tail, linger a bit, then slowly sink back into traffic.

Back to the 928 issue -- my tie-breaker
 

Among the interesting Porsches I've owned, this was the rarest.

It was a 1981 "Carelli" 928 convertible. A clapped-out wreck with the remains of a nitrous system when I got it, I gave it an 'S4 conversion' and changed it from pearlescent white to black. Great looking car -- recognized for what it was by only a handful of passersby.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1068951688.jpg

OK if we are talking just bang for your buck the 951 is probably the best period. I would debate of any P car. Now there is one thing the 928 has that no 911 or 951 can have. The sound of a V8. To some this means nothing, however to those who have become intoxicated with the rumble of a V8 there is no replacement. It is all a matter of personal preference. That is why we drive Porsches in the first place.

I disagree. Bang for the buck, the 914/6. However, it depends on what you want the car for. If you want to thrash the competition at the auto-x, 914/6. If you want a car to play the curves all around, 914/6. If you want a comfy cruiser, 928. If you want a Porsche to hual stuff (grocery getter) with, and be a comfy cruiser, the 944. If you want a truely nimble highway speedster, the 911.

Just my n.s.h.o....

James

PS and if you want a reliable fun speedster, get an early Boxster...

Aha! You should buy a WRX. Potentially VERY fast and definately hit with the URGLY stick.:cool:

Price-wise, I think that it would be easier to find a nice 944 Turbo for less than a comparable 914/6. Plus, the 951 would be much quicker (than a stock 110hp /6), more comfortable, more reliable and wouldn't be that much slower through the cones. I drove a friend's 89 951 with a couple of minor tweeks (giving the car an easy 350hp BTW) at the last PCA autocross here and was blown away by the performance of the thing. The only downside is that the boost hits just when you need to start braking which can lead to some hairy tire frying moments. On a longer course, this isn't an issue.

Drive examples of every Porsche and make your own decision. :)