Loren ....the chip just flat works....no ifs ands or butts....

It sure does!
 

Ditto!

Loren...I have read just about every post that you have made regarding performance chips. My first observation was that you must have an issue with Steve W's work. Further review revealed that you gave NBD chips equal negative time...dyno charts and all. You will never be accused of lacking passion for your cause. Its just not clear what your true intentions are because you often include the systemsc website for reference.

As I've said many times, simple things (which most chips REALLY do)
can increase performance without wasting money on performance chips:

1. disconnect the O2 sensor (better throttle response)
2. set the internal switch to position 2 (a little richer like a map change)
3. re-adjust the air flow meter (provides better throttle response)
4. leave pin 10 open to the DME (advances the timing)
5. leave pin 28 open and/or disconnect the altitude sensor (a little richer
if sensor is bad)

If you like to waste money for simple mods you can do yourself, just
do it. Whatever makes you guys happy. Isn't that what it's all about.

Still haven't seen GOOD before and after dyno runs, i.e. ones that
aren't mixed with other mods (ss exhaust etc.).

Also guys, there's no need to attack me. I'm just raising issues.
I have nothing to gain or lose with regard to performance chips.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Go here for cool graphs...

http://www.systemsc.com/graphs.htm

I guess you didn't read my previous post. Pin 10 is already disconnected on every cars except California cars. And richening the mixture everywhere does not increase power everywhere. You will increase low end part throttle response, but you will loose overall hp and have a fuel mileage decline. Think I'm full of it?

The first run is with a stock U.S. Carrera 3.2 with a catalytic converter and stock chip. It develops a baseline rwhp of 164.5. The next run, same day, same dyno, is taken with only the fuel increased by 5% throughout, just as your advice with the internal switch to position 2 with a 6.3% fuel increase. You will see a net decline to 153.0 rwhp. Do the math, overlay the graphs, whatever. Here's my hard numbers on a 3.2 Carrera, not theory, where are yours?

Stock baseline 89 U.S. Carrera 3.2 (stock chip)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1069279343.gif

Stock baseline 89 U.S. Carrera 3.2 (fuel only increased by 5%)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1069279397.gif

-M. Thanks for the pics. Helps alot.

I can clear up a portion of this debate here quickly. Regardless of whether the "California brown wire" is attached or connected (I have switched back and forth since installing Steve W's chip), the chip is a big improvement in low end power and torque.

My 1987 Carrera 3.2 with no other mods is definitely quicker than it was before the chip install. The wire has NO affect on performance that I can actually feel. The chip, however, is a big improvement.

Mike

Ditto. I'm in CA and I currently have the wires connected. I definitely feel the difference with the chip.

My Seat-of-the-pants Dyno can't tell if there is a performance increase without the cable connected.

I suppose I could do all those little mods to possibly get similiar performance, but why...I can get the chip, and if I want I can easily pop it out when it comes to smog time (if ever needed even).

I have to chime in with a positive vote for Steve's chip [or in my case 3 chips]. Not only did he stick with me to get the chip firmware to where my car wouldn't predetonate on the lousy fuel here in Arizona, but he must have spent at least three hrs on the phone with me getting there. The whole while he spent getting the chip right, he made it clear that if it didn't work out for me in the end, he'd just refund my money. What the heck more could one ask for . . .

The old [stock] chip feels 'slumpy' to me compared to Steve's chip. The car is not as much fun to drive with the stock chip. This is most noticeable in the <4k rpm area [at least for me]. That's probably because I just don't get too many opportunities to open it up so to speak.

My only other engine mods are cone filter and Magnecor plug wires [it that can be considered a mod].

todd
86 cpe

You all ought to feel the difference the chip made for my '89 US spec with SSIs . . . . OH MY GOD when the tach hits 4k you better be holding on with both hands. The improvement in quickness equaled changing from stock exhaust to SSIs . . . .

Can't wait to throw the 45s on the rear . . . . that should really rachet things up a notch.

Steve rules . . . . nuff said.

A big ditto on that! Glad I have big wheels on my car...

Im confused. I have an 86 Aus delivered car with . It has a cat, and runs on unleaded fuel. The manual states 207hp (152kw). The two brown wires are present and appear to be connected.

Is there any benfit/harm in unpluging these, epsecially considering now, unlike in the 80s, the car is running on 98ron premium unleaded fuel?

stuart

Have any of the California guys in this thread had their car smogged since installing the chip? If so, any problems?

As per the first page of this thread, CA, Japan and Australia seem to have these cables connected.

Best thing is to disconnect the wires and see if you feel any negative effects. Only negative thing I can think of is you might *might* get some extra smoke from the exhaust, but probably not.

With the octane of fuel you're using, you should not have problems. SteveW would know best though.

With people still asking questions about the brown wires, it
appears that few read the previous posts.

The functions, as I described, are as follows:

1. Pin 10 brown wire when connected retards the timing
to reduce NOX and/or pingng for lower octane fuels.
In California and Japan it is connected for NOX reduction
which increases with timing advances, e.g. performance
chips advance timing.

2. Pin 28 brown wire when connected bypasses the altitude
sensor to lean the mixture (alt. sensor shorts 28 to grd
at high alt. to lean mixture)

Your chip suppliers should provide this info and not just
the tables that Porsche provides for each country. These
jumper connections WILL affect how ALL chips perform,
unless the chip supplier has eliminated the function in the chip.

Have Fun
Loren

Howdy,

I'm new to the Carerra world since my recent purchase of my 87.
I live in NY, but the car I just purchased was up until my purchase a California car. I've read everything about the little brown wires and am soliciting help on this:

1.) Should I remove or disconnect the wires. If so do I stand to gain anything by doing it? or should I leave it alone?

2.) If I wanted to do this on my own, How? this may seem basic but I would love some instruction on how to - maybe even pictures?

regards

B

Only partially true. Depending on specific versions of the DMEs and chip that is in it, the combination of pin 10 and the use of Porsche p/n 911.612.421.00, which is a resistor network that goes in between pin 28 and the altitude sensor, (which by the way is always open below an altitude of 1000 meters) determines the region coding. Within certain chips, contains several fuel and ignition maps for the U.S. 930/25, the European 930/20 motor, the European 207 hp 930/21 configuration (a 930/20 variation with a cat and detuned chip for 91 ROZ octane), and the Swiss/Swedish 231 hp 930/20 motor with an air pump. This is the basis for a new European triple map chip that allow a user to implement an O2 sensor, or revert back to the stock 231 hp 930/20 mapping if he so chooses. It's confusing enough for everyone to supply this information, with all the years and variations out there. That's why each chip is preset for each owner's configuration and country.

For everyone with 930/25 U.S. spec cars, Loren is correct in this regard in that disconnecting pin 10 will improve performance to a small degree on some cars. So Stuart, Bruno, you should all be safe in disconnecting them and trying it out. However, playing with and disconnecting pin 28 will do nothing for your car unless you live in Denver where the oxygen is 18% thinner, and the only time the altimeter switch closes. By default it is an open circuit.

And guys, thank's again for your vote of confidence. SmileWavy

Edit: Scott asked about passing smog. I didn't specifically program these chips to pass smog, nor were they tested or approved by any governmental agency. So 'for off road use only'. If you need to smog your car, I recommend you swap back to the stock chip just to be sure. Having said that, there are several guys passing smog without problem. Buttjoint reported that he just passed the California 15 and 25 mph rolling dyno test recently here without problem:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/135777-stevew-equipped-carrera.html

So, if my '87 was originally from New York there's no brown wires to disconnect? Is there a performance difference between 24 and 28 pin DME's? My 24 pin DME developed an intermitent no-run condition so I replaced it with a new 28 pin (the only new version available) DME from Atlanta. It feels like I lost a little bit in the mid range. I'm a little skeptical about having someone repair the old DME, is there someone competent out there?

Inspired by beer and this whole brown wire thing, I excitedly ran out to the shed, grabbed a garage light and investigated under the seat.

Someone (PO) beat me to it. The brown wires where already disconnected and the white socket and plug where neatly taped to the black insulator.

I have reconnected them and am hoping for dramatic results tomorrow morning as the wife forbade me from starting my car and waking/scaring the kid.

StuartJ, maybe this explains the 3/10seconds you beat me by at Winton?

Stay tuned....

Loren and Steve

Thank you both for your considered answers. I did read the whole thread, my confusion stemmed form the variuos quoted hps and configs. Thanks again, very much.

Victor

When will you understand? It doesnt matter how fast you go, I will always go 3/10s faster.


Bwahaahaahaahaahaahaaahaaahaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaa

The 28 Pin Eprom DME has a little better performance and
runs a little smoother than the early 24 Pin Eprom DMEs.

You may not notice a difference with the Pin 10 brown wire
disconnected. It probably only advances the ignition 2 -3 degrees.
You can check it with a timing light with the RPM constant at
2000 RPMs to get an idea.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Movin, in 87, Porsche used a special 24 pin chip that was specific only to the early 87s. This was the transitional period when Porsche was going from the 24 to 28 pin DMEs in order to consolidate inventory because the 28 pin chips had a larger memory and therefor could contain the various maps for different countries. There are a couple of versions of the 24 pin program for 87 just and there were a couple of versions of the 28 pin programs for 87-89. Between the two versions for each year, one produces a little more power than the other. This means while one 89 could produce 217 hp, the other might only produce 207 hp. Probably you originally had the 217 hp chip in your 87 and the 28 pin DME you got had the 207 hp chip. No big deal though, because you can take the 24 pin chip out of your old DME and insert it into the 28 pin DME and have your old program back. If you install the 24 pin socket in the 28 pin socket, you need to insert the chip in the socket to the side of the socket away from the half moon notch.

Also, early 24 pin 84-86 DMEs can be easily modified to accept the 24 pin 87 chips, or late 28 pin eproms. It's just a matter of installing a larger 28 pin socket, and moving a jumper. The difference between the early 24 pin programs, and the later 28 pin programs is that while the 84-86 cars produced 207 hp, a large portion of the later cars had a 217 hp chip. Also, idle ignition timing is increased by about 5-6 degrees in the later cars for improved efficiency, and raised the idle speed from 800 to 880 rpm. However with a revised chip with all programming the same between the two, I've found no difference between a early 24 pin v.s. a 28 pin program.

What do I think of Steve W after reading his posts, meeting him in person, and installing one of his chips... Highly intelligent, unassuming, kind, personable, and VERY, Very, generous with his time and expertise!

Thank you Steve.

Sincerely,

Mike

Thanks Mike for the kind words, although you give me more credit than I deserve. I had a blast meeting you guys also! :)

Adam, in the U.K, your reply email address does not work. Tried to reply but got a bounceback. Could you shoot me another email again? Thanks.

Correction:

The early 3.2 DMEs ('84) used 16K EPROMs which could accept the 32K EPROM
WITHOUT any jumper changes. The later 64K EPROMs used in the '88 and '89
require a number of jumper changes to convert from the 16K/32K EPROMs in
the early DMEs.

Unless all the maps and all the additional data points are included in the 24 pin
EPROMs, the 28 Pin EPROMs (later DMEs) are still much better. That's why
Bosch went to a 64K EPROM, i.e. more map data which couldn't be placed
in the smaller 24 Pin (16K/32K) EPROM.

Porsche owners always notice an overall improvement when switching to
the later DME box on their 3.2s. The improvement is over the full RPM
range and not just at a few RPM points.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

so, I disconnected the little brown wire today..took the car for a drive. I really can't say I notice any difference. I'd like to think it's doing something to help..but who knows. I guess I may just hook it back up since I really can't prove a positive improvement.

Danmatar, the difference in power by disconnecting the pin 10 brown wires is minor with a stock chip, no where near what a remapped chip does. By connecting it, it essentially leans out the fuel mixture everywhere to reduce emissions on cars for California.

Once again for the third time:

1. The Pin 10 brown wire is connected for CA & Japan cars to retard the
timing for NOX reduction. It DOES NOT affect the fuel mixture. Once
disconnected, it will advance the timing a few degrees.

2. The Pin 28 brown wire bypasses the altitude correction sensor by shorting
Pin 28 to ground, which is what the sensor does at high atitudes, to lean
the mixture. With it connected, the mixture will be lean. You need to use
a CO machine to see its effect.

You guys need to determine which brown wire you're disconnecting.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

I'm just recounting my experience. BTW, I'm disconnecting the ONLY brown wire going into my ECU. Pin 10 or 28, I have no idea.

Then it's probably the Pin 10 brown wire. If the stock chip has been
replaced, then it's possible that the function has been disabled or
masked by the chip mod.

If you have the stock chip (xxxxx358), then you may have to use
a timing light to see the change. Also as I've said, the timing advance
is minor (2 -3 degrees) and may not be that noticeable.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

...troll...

You have to "love" those chip makers who CLAIM to make performance chips,
but lack the BASIC understanding of how the Porsche DME functions. Don't
you just wonder what you're getting, when you buy one of those chips?

As a result, you have to ask yourself what the long term effect is of running
such a chip.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Perhaps you should pull out your gas analyzer, stick it up your tailpipe and take it for a drive and tell me it does not affect the fuel mixture. Either way, I am done discussing this issue with you because it is an irrevelent issue to anything. I am not interested in entering into a pissing contest, and if it makes you feel like you've got the bigger schlong, then so be it.

Wait a minute! Is this another E-ram thread?:D

Just kidding - take it easy guys!!! this is only a thread!!!

Loren - if steve rubs you the wrong way :mad: , then look the other way.
Steve - if loren rubs you the wrong way :mad: , then look the other way.

That way, people interested in Steve's Chips can chit chat in a civil manner. The ones who are not, can chit chat elsewhere.:D

Can't we all get along?SmileWavy

:D

Such prose...on so many different levels. :)

Boy, if you read the threads you'll find Steve's are informative and helpful regarding engine performance and DME workings.
If you read Loren's, you'd think he has a vendetta against Steve and anyone who tries to improve the Bosch computer, as if it was the motherland's gift to car creation. I'm amazed Steve keeps debating this. On the sheer fact alone that the software in the 84-86 chips is 20 years old now, its pretty obvious to me that improvements can be made in the timing setup by itself, since the old chip-ware is programmed for use with 87 Octane fuel. If all you had to do was fiddle with the sensors and their ancillary functions, you wouldn't need a FACTORY CHIP IN THE DME IN THE FIRST PLACE would you?
Nope. Guess not.SmileWavy

BGCarrera32

I'm with you on this one - although sometimes I think Loren might be Steve's alter ego - sort of like two face in the batman comics - one doesn't exist without the other.

No offense Steve -- Loren does a good job of bumping any thread associated with the evil computer hacker!!

Well Loren is right about the brown wires. My car runs like a charm, pulls more chicks than ever before too.

Why does everyone get so upset? The issue was what the brown wires do.
No one provided the correct answers. I've provided that info.

Also, if you don't like my asking questions which should be provided by
chip solicitors, then just ignore them. These are questions everyone
should be asking when no real data exists. I doubt that most of you
would replace the factory specified oil with some oil that an unknown
source just produced, because the claim was a performance increase.

The more information we all have, the better off we all are. That's the main
purpose of this forum, isn't it. When people solicit business on a public
forum, they should expect to be challenged.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2