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Zendalar's Avatar
 
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Removing rear targa glass, without ruining the seal??

I am in middle of removing paint from my car, and there is some rust under the chrome trim...well, it means that i need to remove the glass to get rid of the rust.

The seal is quite expensive, so is there a way to remove the glass easily without cutting the seal? (tried searches, -> Cut the seal)

Should I remove the targa bar cover also??
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Old 11-18-2003, 12:18 AM
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I've only done the front seal, but if yours is old and getting hard you may not have a choice but to cut. I bought an aftermarket seal at 1/3 the cost of a dealer and it worked fine.
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Old 11-18-2003, 02:54 AM
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the targa bar will have to come off. 72? that seal has lived its life, replace ONLY with OEM from dealer, or you will be sorry. I had a batch of w/s seals go thru here that resulted in replacements 3 months later due to cracking. Will not use aftermarket rubber again in this shop unless there is no alternative, or its a race car....
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Old 11-18-2003, 08:01 AM
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Cutting the seal is probably the easiest and only way to remove the glass. In doing so, you may end up gouging or cutting into the paint underneath, so you will need to treat those areas to prevent future rusting before you reinstall the glass. Sounds like you are preparing your car for paint anyways.
Replace your seals with genuine OEM from the dealer, Porsche has a warranty for their parts, that helps but more importantly you don't want to have to do this all over again in a few years because of a leak due to a dried out inferior seal.
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Old 11-18-2003, 08:30 AM
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Zen,

Take a look here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/114302-quick-targa-window-install-trick-post837955.html#post837955

Saw this a while back from a fellow Pelicanite and was a very good tip. When they pulled my back glass out it took two days to get back in. After reading how Kevin does it bet it will help a lot.

Get the knife out and cut the seal, its a lot less expensive than breaking the rear glass whilst trying to save the seal!

Joe
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Old 11-18-2003, 09:06 AM
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The targa rear window is a difficult piece to reinstall. Kevin's method of the strap is great, beats taking three techs away from their job, and saves the tired arms of all. I know of no other piece of glass as difficult to install. With no pots in the floor, one could park the car on a plank to facillitate tying the straps down. The constant pressure is the key. Along with lubrication.
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Old 11-18-2003, 10:05 AM
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Actually... The seal is 4-5 times more expensive here in Finland than the glass. There are several shops that sell second hand Targa glasses, for some reason there are a lot around. The price of the rear glass is 50$. The seal is not hardened at all, i think it has been changed at some point.
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Old 11-18-2003, 11:22 PM
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Have someone bring a new seal back the next time they go to the UK or Germany. Gotta be less expensive than the taxes where you live!

Joe
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Old 11-19-2003, 06:25 AM
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If the seal is good, ok , save it, take the targa bar off, this will require removal of the rear targa top seal on the roll bar, many little screws behind it. This will most likely require replacement of that seal too.$$$. there are 2 nuts under each quarter panel up by the door jamb facing down, known to rust, they snap, requiring new studs to be welded to the targa bar, on the top side of the quarter, these studs will have plastic spacers to prevent the targa outer cover from digging into the paint, take note of position for reassembly. remove interior panels. Look for the wiring harness for the heat, heads down a hole in the bulkhead, into the engine bay, unplug there. With a dull hard plastic tool, start pushing the lip of the seal from the inside of the car, tedious, but work it around. If it gets too hard around the beltline, you may have to pull the locking trim strip out, carefully in one long pull to avoid short kinks, get the trim strip out. The trim strip will deform but can be reshaped, try to avoid real hard bends, this will distort the anodized finish. This is the reason many advocate the cutting of the seal, to avoid distortion of the trim strip. The cut method starts at the glass to trim portion of the rubber, by removing this portion of the seal , pressure is relieved and the trim strip will remove easily with out the distortion. keep pushing the inner lip of the seal from the inside of the car, if you get all the roll bar portion, and 6 inches of the beltline portion the window will lift out, and if you would like to save some work, try to keep the rubber attached to the glass. Ofcourse if you cut it and are replacing the seal, nevermind, yank it.
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Old 11-19-2003, 06:46 AM
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Jeez Damon!

Kinda sounds like you might have done this once or twice before!

Really nice to see someone who has done something so often that they can repeat it verbatum from memory! I need so save this thread in case I ever have to pull my rear window in the future!

Joe
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Old 11-19-2003, 06:56 AM
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Been at it for years. Although Kevins strap/pressure is new to me! the removal is the same for all gasket set glass, although windshields are laminated and will crack, this is why after a roof damage repair, the factory made templates for window aperature sizing. If the opening is off, the glass will forced to do something it may not want to! Rear and side glass are tempered and put up with quite abit of pressure, and make quite a mess when they decide to break! Currently repairing a 944 that took it hard in the drivers rear at watkins glen, the rear window popped so loud the cars behind him heard it in thier cars. the 944 rear window is the largest piece of curved tempered auto glass made, before that it was the targa rear window. factoid....
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:12 AM
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This is an old thread, but I thought I'd give a little update. I used plastic pry tools, started in the lower left hand corner, and a small pry bar, and had no problem removing the rear glass without cutting the expensive seal. This was in a coupe....a targa might be different.

I'm also told that you can take an old seal, spray it with silicone spray and put it in a plastic bag and it will be like new after a week. FYI...
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:15 PM
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zen, i just finished putting my 2nd targa glass in and now consider myself an expert. no, you cannot remove the glass without cutting the seal, do and i mean do get an oem seal our you will be wasting your time. i tried the after market seal and it just will not work, and if you could get it to work, (with i did) it looked so bad i scrapped it. it is a very precise fit, espeacily when you have to put the beading back in, which is the biggest pain of the whole job. (lot of slippery somthing in a spray bottle you will need) when you get ready to pull the cord for intall, have someone on the outside pushing on the beading, if it pops out, you will be starting all over. good luck, i hope ive done my last one.
Old 05-04-2008, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptyo View Post
This is an old thread, but I thought I'd give a little update. I used plastic pry tools, started in the lower left hand corner, and a small pry bar, and had no problem removing the rear glass without cutting the expensive seal. This was in a coupe....a targa might be different.
The Targa is HUGELY different than a Coupe!!!
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Old 05-04-2008, 05:52 PM
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I will be getting my targa back from paint tomorrow.

The targa bar must come off to access the top portion of the window seal. We cut the window seals - 25 years old and splitting. Gently remove the window trim. Then simply run a cutter parallel to the glass and cut through the seal. The window will lift right out.

Take lots of pictures of the wiring for the rear window defroster. Also, save the old seal so you know where to cut the holes for the wiring.

Yes the seals are expensive. But, they are old and I really do not want future leaks around the windows. Cost of doing a paint job in my eyes.

Today I drilled 2 holes in the concrete floor with lead plugs and eye hooks in prep for the targa window install. Going to use the tie down strap method.

And, good luck with the project.
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Old 05-04-2008, 07:10 PM
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This thread is timely because I'm just getting ready to fix the mistakes of a local dealer who's paint shop couldn't get it right.

So what do you think went wrong?


I guess the dealer had no one on the staff old enough to know how to do this. They hired a subcontractor.

When I showed them several pictures of glass done right he began to say something was wrong with the seal. The manager offered to order an OEM seal thru their system and the guy said that one was not right either.

It's my opinion that he somehow pushed the glass down past the welt on the rear edge and it is now stuck there.

This was completed last summer, but I just have the time now to deal with it.
Do you think there is any way to lift it without doing dammage? I tried with suction cups and also with a 2x4 prying from below, but no go.

Those that have experience, what's the difference between a seal that will work and one that won't?
Thanks!

I was hoping to not have to take off the targa bar skin, but it looks like it is a must. At least the nuts were off recently and hopefully not rusted back on!
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:47 AM
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Read through my thread about how I did this extremely challenging task here.

I've said this before as well, but it helps -- a lot -- if you have previously tackled a front windshield seal or helped someone else and seen how a roped-in windshield installation works. The front is a walk in the park compared to the targa rear window.

The targa bar cover has to come off to do this job. The trim has to be installed correctly in the seal for the overall window install to go smoothly.

To me, this is absolutely a two-person job -- one person inside pulling the rope and the seond person pressing and keeping things moving. There has to be a lot of patient communication between the two as you move along.

I've read about Kevin's technique -- tried it and realized it was not going to work for me. Not saying it can't work -- I just didn't see how.

The Porsche workshop manual says to rope in six to eight inches at the center rear, then a similar distance at the top front. The factory is dead on with that advice.

I'm not trying to scare you hard-core guys, but this is one hell of a difficult job. It may take three hours. Or days. Patience is the best tool you can have at your disposal.

There's more stuff in my thread (as I recall Bill's rear windwow pictured here is pictured there as well).

Brian
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:30 PM
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Brian, thanks!
I forgot about that whole thread since last year and it didn't come up earlier on my search results today.

I dug in a little deeper this evening.
Pulled the targa bar off and luckily the glue holding the seal on the front was still soft enough that I didn't ruin that seal.
Nuts underneath the fenders came off easy too.
With the cover off, I have a better view and understanding of how this works.

I suspect the glass guy at HBL installed the glass starting at the rear end instead of the front. As he pulled the front down the rear edge must have slipped down under the welt / flange. I tried to lift the rear edge up using two suction cups tied to the arms of my lift. Enough tension to raise the rear of the car. Something was going to brake so I stopped.

Tonight, I did the same trick on the front edge of the glass and without much tension at all, it began to release. I don't have it out all the way, but I know its going to work.
If lucky, I'll be able to get the wires sorted out and in the right places and rope it back in the right way.
I need to study your roping instructions again.
You mentioned the shop manual had directions, which manual were you looking in?
Was it an early manual?
Thanks for the link back to the other thread and I'll let you know if I need some help when the time comes.

THANKS!
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:49 PM
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I just reinstalled my targa glass. Documented on this thread - starting from post #76.

Rosewood gets a paint job.....
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:18 PM
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Charlie's technique with the targa rear window is almost identical to how I did mine -- note how he taped around the window, window seal and trim. He used masking tape. I used packing tape. Things will get slick as you work, but the tape helps keep the trim and window in its correct seal flange as you install. Remove pieces and sections of the tape as you work along.

Bill, I think the targa rear window installation instructions are in the early sections of the factory manual set.

Just to reiterate -- do not begin this project if you are on a deadline. Be patient, be prepared for re-tries, and be ready to think through what worked and didn't work and apply what you've learned to your next attempt.

I used -- I think -- 1/4 inch softish poly-cotton rope overlapped front and back. I think it helps, too, to throw the new seal in a bathtub filled with water and dishwashing soap. Every few hours, scrub it with a brush to get the mold release off.

Brian
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Old 05-23-2008, 06:32 AM
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