Windshield help needed quickly!
 

I need help quickly.

I have a 77 911s that has a broken windshield, so I decided to update the window seal to the 964 style
(Trimless seal, no chrome trim). People on this BBS has stated that if, you replace both the seal and windshield with that of a 964 that it would fit. So I ordered the trim from Pelican –

“M-541-225-00 Windshield Seal (W/O trim groove), coupe/targa/cabriolet, 911/911 Turbo (1989) or 911 Carrera 2/4 (1989-94) all. “

When I sent the car to the glass shop, they said the glass for an 89-94 911 and the seal that I supplied was too large for this 77 911. I told them that it was suppose to fit, so he used a little too much force and broke the glass. WOW- $595.00 for windshield only.
Now the glass guy is pissed because he has to eat the cost of the glass, he said if it ends up that this setup doesn’t work he might bill me for the broken glass plus the cost of the install of whatever we do end up installing. Now I’m pissed, can someone confirm that the “964” is the same as a “911 89-94 “. And are there any tricks that I need to tell these guys. Has any one done this to the car before that might have some input.

The car is still at the shop waiting for more glass to arrive , I need to tell them something soon.
HELP
Rick

Why are you messing with something that already works, get the year appropriate seal/glass and be done with it

I considered the same thing a few months ago. I searched the forum and tried to read everything I could about it. What I gleened was that there was no concensus as to what would work. I ordered the correct rubber for my year and had them install the correct windshield. I couldnt find another way...

unless you were the guy who forced a window-glass where it wouldnt go, I don't see how the guy could charge you for the broken glass. He is the "pro" . . right?

I dunno about that. If he were involved in getting the correct windshield and rubber, I would agree. But in this case, I think you goofed. I saw some threads about TRYING to use 964 windshield, but there was certainly no consensus.

This must be one of those things like getting certain sized tires and wheels to fit in the rear of a 911 - sometimes they fit and sometimes they don't. I've seen many pre-89 911s with the C2 windshield in them, so it *does* work. I can't explain why it doesn't work on some cars, though. I was actually about to do this same thing on my own car.....hmmm...

Mike

Harlan, don't think that has not crossed my mine a time or two, I just read so much about how changing to this new setup will work and I wont have to repaint the trim every year.

It sounded like people actualy tried it and it worked, now it's looking like I'm the first one stupid enough to try it!

But still taking suggestions
Rick

not for nothing, but,

I just installed a new stock size windshield and I had extra clearance.. I even did dum dum in the 4 corners to help center it. It took me 3 trial fits to get the fit I wanted........Ron

Can someone confirm that "964" is just a series and not the model . In other words when they order the glass again is there a 90 964 or is that the same as a 90, 911 Carrera. They said there books does not show a 964 at all. I think they are going to try it again tomorrow with the same size glass as today.

Rickb

If I were doing this I would MAKE SURE I know what I'm doing and not just guessing here. This could get real expensive before it's over. I don't know that I've ever heard of anyone actually doing it myself but maybe I missed that thread.

I purchased a replacement windshield and a C2 rubber trim and it would not work. the rubber gasket was a bit too big for a proper fit.I had to go back and use the correct replacement gasket for my 75. I simply left the metal trim pieces out because I did"t like the look. the C2 gasket did however work on my rear windsheild. go figure....

hugo454, when you said "replacement" was you refering to a "964" replacement or a 75 replacement glass? Because I've read if you use both glass and rubber from 964 or C2 that it "all fits".

Rick

I'm bringing in the 85 TL in for a windshield this week. I'll stay with the stock glass and seal. I can't see changing something that works. I've done glass replacements before and they can be a beatch, I figure let a pro do it (under my supervision).
IMHO

rick, I can tell you this, I put old (911)glass and rubber into 964's. And the factory windshield jig is unchanged for the 911 thru 964.Replacement glass can be just wrong sizing, meaning it may not be perfectly made. I see no other reason why yours broke other than it was forced, and when that happens glass breaks. I am sure they will take a better look at this on #2.

OK,
so if I had extra room in my '77 opening, then...... Ron

it was a 75 replacement glass and 964 gasket

IS taking out and putting a windshield back in tough to do?

Windshield removal depending on the age of the glass can be tricky as windshields become brittle over time. If it doesn't break coming out, it may break going back in.

Why not just put the correct date glass, and get the metal trim powder coated, in black

The powder coating is cheap and simple.

tchanson, what's your source for this info?

I have 964 glass and 964 seal in my '86 Carrera.
Edit: I looked up the part numbers in the PET, the 964 and 911 glass have different part numbers.
-Chris

Originally posted by Series900
...the factory windshield jig is unchanged for the 911 thru 964..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tchanson wrote,

I don't think that's quite true. The factory changed the windshield frame pinch weld lip from 10mm to roughly 15mm in mid-October '88. (This also included all the '89 3.2 cars built after that date.) The switch to the trimless seal and slightly different size 964 windshield was made at the same time for that reason.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHECK THE DIMENSIONS IN THE MANUAL...

Volume 2 factory 911 manual page B55
special tools
P852 windshield template
P853 coupe rear template
P854 templates for left and right vent frame
P856 template for rear window cutout targa
Volume 5 C2/4 page 50-07
p852 gage for windshield
P853 gage for rear window
P854 gages for left and right rear side windows
P856 gage for rear opening-Targa

SAME TOOLS AND DIMENSION!


The 10/15 mm pinchweld difference would only matter on the grip depth of the seal. The overall opening is the same. IF, a 964 chassis does indeed have a 15 mm lip, and the 911 chassis has 10mm , then it only stands to reason the retro fit would be easier , not harder. For it is the pinchweld that the seal gets roped around on install. The glass part numbers are different and the seal numbers are different, and will have to be used in pairs. Aftermarket glass will not always be in perfect dimension, this is why some complain of too loose a seal, and others too tight, which when forced will crack. I only have 911's with the glass out in the shop right now, but next time I do a 964 chassis, I will be sure to check the lip measurement to confirm this 10/15mm. Better yet a call to a dismantler could reveal the info NOW!

ChrisBennet,
You said that you have a 964 glass and seal in your 86 Carrera, is the opening the same for a 77 911S? Also does your new seal cover the full area that your old seal did? In other words ,I understand that it is in but does the seal cover the outside area where your old seal covered.

I just returned from the glass shop, they received the new 964 glass and mounted the seal on it and then placed it onto my car. They pointed out that when they rope it in, the bottom corner was about an inch to far from the lip. As well as the rubber seal did not fill the void that the old seal use to cover. They have order the standard glass for the 77 911s which is going to be here in the morning. They are going to try to fit it with the new style (964) rubber seal ,if that doesn't work then they will replace the rubber with the old style also. I will keep everyone updated .

Rick,
I didn't install my windshield but it fits better than the stock style windshield that was in there before - no gap at the upper corner. I don't know what kind of tricks they did to make it fit though.
-Chris

as I wrote before.. I had to use dum dum to position the stock replacement shield and gasket with no upper corner gap

Well, here is an update on my glass issue.

The stock glass did not fit the 964 rubber , so I ordered the stock rubber today from Pelican , so it should be here Monday or Tuesday.
I am going to have the chrome trim powder coated this weekend while I'm waiting for the rubber to arrive. Right now it has black paint on it that is chipping off. I will try to sand it off this weekend with 400 or 600 grit paper.
The coater said that he could do it in red to match my car or black. My vote is black , the red might be too much ,too flashy. What do you guys think,black or red trim?

I think the red would be absolutely horrible! :eek:

I agree, red would be way too ricey!

According to BA's book Pg 30, the 964's windshield was repositioned farther forward in the A-Pillar to give it a more flush mountin and improve aerodynamics.

I have a 964 parts car at the house w/the front window out. At the shop, we will be replacing the window soon in an SC. I can make a couple of measurements for depth.

"forward" within the 964 RUBBER, therefore flush to the roof skin. The inner ledge, the "pinchweld" is still in the same location. the only difference has been noted that the 964 did indeed have a 15mm flange as opposed to the 911 flange at 10. the additional 5 mm provides a larger grip range on the later seal. the window opening is still the same.

Hmmmm...This thread has come full circle. Glad to hear that you have finally figured out that the year appropriate works best.
As for the trim, I believe the original finish is an anodize. Whatever you decide do it in black.

windshield
 

With this being a popular mod isnt there shops that do this all the time,if not what about shops that chop tops on cars,who makes there seals.

anybody tried 993 poly windshield and 993 seals from gt racing in a early model 911?