Well Olivier? How's the rebuild going? Pics please!

I got the last trust block last week, but found three broken races on the bearings with the smallest rollers in them, so I am not waiting for those new parts. I should have them tomorrow at the latest and I can start putting the puzzle back together. The parts cost is definitely getting up there, but at least I know exactly what is going on in there now!

Olivier

Nice Oliver! Sorry I couldnt go through this with you, but I'm going to be getting at it next month! I was pricing parts and stuff and I couldnt find the thrust blocks on the site. I was trying to figure out about how much per gear to replace all the wearable parts such as synchro rings, hubs (dogteeth), slider, etc, but I could not find the brake bands or the thrust blocks on pelican. Are they a different name or am I just missing them?

Also, how much do you have into this puppy now? Just gotta love the "while the tranny is out" stories :)

I did have to find the more obscure parts elsewhere, Pelican would have had to special order them. JW has a source, though, and he knows exactly what to replace. With the bearings, I have probably spent close to $800 just on "wear" parts. (which is why I will be much quicker to open it up and replace just the syncro bands next time).

Close to the price of a rebuilt one, but I will have learned a lot andI will not have any questions about the state of my transmission internals any more!

I have not had the time to add up all the receipts, yet, and most are mixed with parts for the clutch job I am doing at the same time.

I am going to try to be patient and take a lot of pictures during reassembly, also to post here and makesure I am putting it back together right. I never thought it would be out this long!

I have to say, though, that there is nothing to be intimidated about with taking the transmission apart once you see ow it all works and comes apart.

Olivier

Great info. Did you have to replace the bearings along with the races or just the races? Dont you have to heat and press the races? How can you do that at home? How were the shift-fork tolerances? Did you have to replace any of the operating sleeves?

I'm going through the Bently manual which I must say has some pretty good info in it and trying to get my vocab and other info straight. What documentation have you been using?

I did do the 1/2 operating sleeve, because it had wear where the 1st gear dog teeth, which were totally fried (worn all the way in the opposite direction), wore on it. I also replaced th slider hub, which had some longitudinal scoring where the sleeve moves.

The bearings I am replacing are the small (1.5" diameter?) needle-type that are used several places in the transmission, mostly in the center of the actual gears.

So far, nothing has required heat or presss, other than pressing on te new dog teeth, which I did with my $90 arbor Freight press.

Everything else came apart with light pulling, maybe using some screwdrivers for leverage. The parts are really hard, so it is hard to damage things. The old dog teeth came off easily just using a hammer and chisel as JW described. I debated getting the tool for so long, it almost seemed silly after I finally got the courage ti spend 10 minutes slowly working the teeth off. It is one of those things where it seems like it will never move, and then you see a little crack between the teeth and the gear, then you really get it moving with good leverage, and 30 seconds later it is sliding right off.

Olivier

Oliver, you didnt mention what documentation you were using. I know this thread has alot of info, but not all the info you need. Keep us posted...

Mainly just JW's advice, along with some other tips from the other posters. I think Haynes has the best description and definitely exploded drawings, but they are assuming you are taking everything all the way apart. JW helped me kep things in minor assemblies and only take apart what I had to in order to get to the parts I needed to replace.

Olivier

I have a Haynes, but I almost never use it. Have you seen the Bently manual diagrams of the tranny? The *seem* to be pretty good, but until you actually need it you probably dont know. I'll do my taxes tomorrow and rebuild her with some of those funds...I'm gettin psyched!

Here are some pictures that might be helpful

http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/marcesq3/TrannyRebuild.htm

Marc,

Now that I have everything to put it back together, I am debating whether or not to replace the 3/4 syncros while I have it apart. There is a little bit of wear, and only on the sides of the bands away from the dog teeth. I may just flip them. How did you stake the old clutch disk to the wall? Not matter what I try, I am just twisting the disk off.

Olivier

Olivier:

That was Eugene (very single guy) who nailed the clutch disk to the wall. I put the nut in the vice and then used the inside of the clutch disk to twist the shaft with a crow bar.

Some people advocate flipping the syncros, my thing is not wanting to do this again for a long time.

Congrats on getting it all back together. Fun project

It's not back together yet! Every time I start reassembly, I spot something else to consider replacing.

My only motivation for flipping them rather than replacing them is to save time and get it back together finally, but I suppose I should spendthe time now to avoid issues later.

Olivier

OK, now I'm terrified. The roller bearing just behind the staked nut on the flywheel side of the main shaft was damaged during heating as a shop removed the stubborn nut for me. I did not worry too much, as the bearing looked simple, and was slightly damaged already.

Now I have everything apart to get new 3/4 syncro bands as my final investment in this project, and I look up the roller bearing. Pelican lists one at that end that I am not sure is this one for $198! Another catalog lists the one I need for $416! How could that be possible for a bearing the size of a half dollar! I think I could spool up my own factory and custom make one for close to that! (This same catalog lists the castle nut at oneend of the shaft (thankfully the other end) for $420 and the shouldered nut at the flywheel end for $18. How is this possible?

Can anyone explain the prices here, or where normal peopl buy their commonly replaced parts?

I may have to sell the car over this one! I love the car, but how could I drive it knowing there is a half-dollar sized roller bearing in my transmission that costs $400! This reminds me of when I looked up part prices for things like the thermal gunsight in my tank in the army!

Help!!!

Second concern, and I hope Marc can check his bearings.

In an earlier post, I asked about the needle bearings having very small symetrical cracks in the cages. I replaced 3 for 5th, 1st and 2nd gears, and now I find the same cracks in 3rd and 4th! Only one cage actually could be separated so the needles would fall out, and all of them are "captured" by the gears themselves, so I don't think the needles could actually get out of place. Each bearing is $90, so 3 was stretching it and 5 is another crazy expense on a commonly replaced part. The new bearings have no cracks, but I wonder if this is something that cracks after a few minutes of use and then works fine for thousands of miles. Marc, how do your needle bearings look? The cracks in mine are so small they almost look like score marks, but one was definitely separating.

Edit: Marc, I can actually see a missing needle in one of your bearings in the photos on your excellent website. I wish I had fully understood your input shaft nut removal method before I paid a shop $25 to destroy my $400 bearing! All my efforts were being absorbed by the clutch springs, but even the shop had to use an oxyacetelyne torch to heat the nut red-hot, and then it still took a lot of force to remove it!

Olivier

O:

Have the cracks on each needle bearing so I assume that they are supposed to be there. No needle bearings missing just poor picture quality.

Post a picture of the bearing . . . I have seen 3 different pictures from 3 different parts places. My bearing is a roller bearing with a cage, closed on top and open on the bottom. Here's mine:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1076201755.jpg

Side and botton view:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1076203917.jpg

Marc, the replacement bearings I got do not have the crack, so I don't think they are supposed to be there. However, I also think they are relatively harmless since everything is tightly contained by the gear surrounding it. It still makes me nervous, though, and the one in first gear was separated enough to release a needle when it was off the race and not contained in the gear. So the cracks can definitely get worse.

Olivier

Gottcha on the cracks . . . mine aren't moving so I think I'll be ok.

I'm going to find that bearing if it's the last thing I do look here:

http://www.rmbearings.co.uk/zkl/F.PDF

What this tells us is that the N305E bearing is 62mm overall diameter . . . does that help??

Marc,

Here is a picture of my fried bearing. I went out to take some measurements with a caliper, but realized mine does not have an outer race like those on the catalog page. I am not sure if it is supposed to be that way or it I lost the outer race somewhere. I would think the rollers would need something to roll against. Actually, I just looked again, and it looks like there is a bearing race surface in the tranmission housing itself between the differential and gear sections that is the outer race for this bearing.

Olivier

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1076253081.jpg