Porsche vs. Ferrari: Question Number 1...

[Wayne 962]

Okay, most of you have heard that I have recently aquired a Ferrari 308. I am learning a lot about this car, and will report back to everyone all of the information that I find out. Some recent key observances:

- Some parts are cheap and some are rediculously expensive. There is no rhyme or reason. Distributor caps can be $250 each.

- The cars seem to have a reputation for being difficult to work on. I think this is a false misconception. So far, it would apear that access to everything is as good or better than the 911. The engine bay is tight, but not nearly as tight as a 911 bay.

- Cars with no paperwork are dangerous beasts. Get one that someone has already spent big bucks on. On eBay, there is one that I would have loved to pick up. The owner had it listed for about 10K more than he has it up there right now, when I was looking last month:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6212&item=2445307201

it's one of the desirable fiberglass models, with extensive paperwork to boot. I think the guy had it listed for $37K before, now it's currently at $27K with no reserve.

Anyways, my question for the day is, "How did Ferrari get away with using carburetors on these cars up to 1979, when Porsche had to go to a system like CIS in 1973 1/2 to make the cars pass smog?" Ferrari eventually went to the CIS system as well in 1980, but how did they manage to avoid problems with emissions controls, particularly here in CA?

Anyone know the answer? I don't...

As for pics, how fitting that the first pic of my car would be with it elevated up in the air:



-Wayne

[Paul Franssen]

Related subject:
A small kid asks his father "daddy, a Ferrari is that a red car with a horse?" to which the father replies "attaboy, it sure is!". "Well", says the kid, "looka this Ferrari"

[MFAFF]

I think P went with injection as a way of maintaining power with the small engines initially. They wanted to maintain 'correct' power outputs or increase them year on year.

Remember Ferrari were 'creative' with hteir power outputs for a number of years, along the same lines as their claims for top speed etc.

Also the water cooled engine is inherently cleaner as the engine uses a leaner mixture becuase of more consistent temp. control.

This may well have allowed the use of lean runnning carbs to pass smog test, and to hell with the correct power outputs....

[atlporsche]

1. ferrari's aren't tougher to work on than any other car, the clientele just never did any of their own work...then when it cost a lot to fix at the dealer, it must have been a "tough job"

I'll put some people in contact with you wayne...I know some people who were very strong in ferrari club here in Atl.

[IROC]

Like MFAFF said, many manufacturer's were still using carburetors and passing emissions well past 1979. I had a 1987 Toyota pickup with a carburetor, for example.

Mike

[vesnyder]

That's a beauty Wayne - keep the pics coming!

[Wayne 962]

Hmm, the water pumper thing must be the difference then. I thought that the closed induction system was a requirement, but I guess I could be wrong. The 308 does run very lean (didn't register any emissions - zero on the HC smog test at 1500 RPM)...

-Wayne

[bell]

could it have to do with the actual number of cars being imported? i know there are more early 911's on the road than ferrari 308's (i'd imagine so anyway)

the biggest ***** of working on a ferrari is the valve adjusts......that's MY understanding

[RickM]

Quote: "The cars seem to have a reputation for being difficult to work on. I think this is a false misconception."

So, you're saying they're hard to work on.

BTW, that's a good price for that FG 308.

[JmuRiz]

Hey Wayne,

Your car looks very nice, paint is very nice on it. Also I'm sure you'll be a great resource to all the Ferrari guys that actually want to do their own work on cars. I think you should look into the upgrades that that e-bay car has on it, the lightweight bumpers and stuff. Or you could just buy that one too and sell the one you did buy, hehe
Good luck!

Nathan

[trader220]

I believe bell is correct. Ferrari flew under the radar so to speak because their import volumes were so much lower. I believe the Lambo ran a mutli carb set up untill 1987 too. I lust after the 1985 Ferrari GTO, just for the record.

[TerryBPP]

Have you started growing your Magnum mustache yet? Please post pics of the motor and the mustache.

[Hetmann]

Why is the license plate upside down on the car carrying the horse?

[Schuey]

Originally posted by TerryBPP
Have you started growing your Magnum mustache yet? Please post pics of the motor and the mustache.

poor wayne is going to boot us for giving him so much crap about this...

[svandamme]

that's common practice in the Lada GT countries
if you wake up and feel like speeding
then you flip the plate before speeding off to avoid tickets

[JonT]

Wayne--how bout some video and sound clips. Some of us here in Nebraska don't see them fancy italian jobbies none to often.

[TerryBPP]

Sorry in Adavance but I couldn't resist.

[Chuck Moreland]

Lots of cars had carbs into the late 80s, even 'merican cars. Does the 308 have cats?

[Emission]

This is a picture on Thanksgiving of the 2002 Ferrari 360 my brother borrowed for the day (and brought to my house). What a beatiful machine! The small V8 redlined at 8500 RPM - it screamed!

The Ferrari drives very different than the Porsche, but at the same time you get the identical enjoyment of race-bred engineering.

[jryerson]

Ferraris are easy to work on as a Porsche 911?


Here's a procedure to remove a A/C belt

Jack up car

Remove RR road wheel

Remove 8 bolts in inner fibreglass fender liner to access engine belts

Twist and manuever fender liner for about 5 minutes to get it out while being careful not to crack it, most all engine work requires removal of right or left liners which can be a b*tch to remove and replace and it takes slight bending and manipulation to R/R them and they are made of hand laid fglass so you need to be careful with them


Loosen alternator -not as easy as it sounds as you have very little access to the 2 bolts and must lay on your back in the most uncomfortable position and stretch your arm thru the frame on the bottom of car and blindly loosen bolt 1 flat a time as you cannot get a socket or any other wrench on it all the while skinning your nuckles on sharp heat shielding etc.


push alternator up to loosen alt belt,it needs to come off

4 bolts ontop of the A/C compressor need to be loosened which are plastic lock nuts and you need to lay on the side over the rear fender or from the back of car being careful to not scratch paint and you'll need to find a variety of open end wrenches of various length to access nuts that you cannot see 1 flat a time

Thru the fenderwell remove W/p belt,

remove support brackett for A/C compressor, pry compressor down to loosen belt, very little room and you need to angle the compressor to gt the belt off and new one on


Put it all back together, which you will need to fight all the same parts in a different way to reinstall


It took me 2 days and 2-3 hours each to replace my A/C belt, alot of it is learning how to remove and install things which Ferrari has no nice manuals like the 911 does, working on my old SC was a breeze compared to my 328, you need to be prepared to be paitent and go very slow

Don't even ask how hard it is to remove a starter or alternator, the problem is limited access along with other sheilding and parts that need to be removed to get the pieces out which takes some manipulation

Ferrari's are not impossible to work on it just takes 2x as long to do anything on them as any other car


Enjoy your 911s guys they are much easier to work on