while not the best "source"
 

CNN/Money lists Cayenne as one of the 3 biggest dissapointments in 2004 autos:

http://money.cnn.com/2003/11/12/pf/autos/bestcars04_disappointing/index.htm

Regardless of the source, it's hard to fault the argument.

They're disappointed Porsche built a car for what it's intended for rather than what most people will use it for, cnn can blow me.

It's true it will probably never be used for off roading, but then "they" would complain it was too delicate because it wouldn't go off road. Saving fifteen large would be nice, but if you can afford one at seventy-five, what's another fifteen thousand. Porsches aren't cheap. They covered all the bases, and brilliantly. The Cayenne circles the North Loop with the same ease and in the same time as a Boxster S. This at five thousand some pounds. I think it's an absolutely stinking brilliant piece of engineering.

Yep, it's a brilliant piece of engineering...which sold out the company's heritage, its founders, and which will be the end of it in the long run, I think.

Hope I'm wrong.

just becuase you can, doesn't mean you should.

At least that's what a fortune cookie told me once. Or was it my mom? I forget.

You can't argue the performance of this vehicle is astounding and raised the bar for sport utes - the only thing Porsche may have missed on is the appearance which no doubt will improve as a reaction to the critics and automotive community (and customers).

I agree.....uglee but engineered well. However, I do remember test driving one and the wood veneer on the dash fell in my lap.

Not the best rememberance of the ride.

Never underestimate the importance of a pretty face.

"Raised the bar for sport utes"??? That like Amana raising the bar for microwave ovens. Who cares?

Plus, once they introduce the mass market VW powered version in the US, it will lower the bar for Porsche for years to come.

It's interesting to read the comments of the critics (most, btw, who couldn't afford to buy a PepperVagen if their life depended on it so likely have a lot of jealously-bias going on ..... ) and compare those to the everyday unsolicited real-life comments I experience. Hardly a day goes by without a complete stranger walking up and telling me how they absolutely love the looks of it - I've heard this same thing from every Cayenne owner I've talked to. I've had people follow me, stop me in parking lots, flag me down at traffic lights, a gawker who rear-ended a car, another gawker who nearly rolled a van at 85MPH next to me on the expressway, etc., etc. The reactions continue to amaze me. Driving my 911 is like being in a stealth vehicle by comparison.

When I first saw the Cayenne in print, I didn't think it was "ugly", I thought it was too much like everything else. In real life, they look much different, much better - they have an unmistakable 'presence' - a very aggressive look. The same "ugly" comments were directed at the 928 - another Porsche that looks much better in person than print. And like the 928, I highly doubt we'll see any significant styling changes to the Cayenne.

Should they have built it? Dunno. Maybe not. But they did and they did it in pure Porsche fashion (afterall, only 7 production sports cars have been able to lap the Nurburgring faster than a Porsche SUV - talk about embarassing!!!!). It is one outstanding piece of German engineering. The upcoming underpowered V6 poser version? Now THAT will damage the Porsche image! -- Curt

I don't think you can really argue that it's jealousy. If that were the case, why did the 993, 996, GT3, etc. get such generally stellar reviews?

In my opinion, it's a goofy-looking vehicle, but to each his own. We're buying a V8 Touareg instead, to haul our infant around.

I really hope Porsche can make this thing work, but I just don't see it happening. The best marketing in the world is not going to convince the affluent SUV buyer that the Cayenne is significantly better than a Jeep at getting groceries.

Sure, the Porsche enthusiast may want one, but wasn't the object of this truck to broaden Porsche's market appeal?

I hear you, although I think sell out is a bit strong. I don't think it will hurt them in the long run either. In fact, it shows me that even with an odd "off topic" venture, they can do it brilliantly. I'm not a big fan of SUV's either, but if I were ultra flush I'd own a Cayenne. Imagine blowing away most other sports cars/sedans on the road with consumate ease. I'd never stop laughing; in fact the thought of it makes me grin ear to ear. My fav's are the tear drop shaped models too, not to mention the CGT. This isn't the first drift off center, the 928 was to be the flagship, and it was more a grand tourer than sports car. But guess what, things are pretty much back on center with the continuance of the 911 series being stronger than ever. Small companies struggle to remain solvent, and if adding a little "pepper" to the soup helps Porsche stay alive, more power to them.

Each to their own....It's just neat to see one, kinda like the new Range Rover, I'll never afford either one.
I came up on what I though was a Cayenne two days ago and it was a Touareg, I said wow are these the same or what. Just buy the VW and superglue some Porsche crests on it volia, you just made $30K :D
I even think the VW is waaaaay over priced, but that's just me...I'd rather drool over the Carrera GT in person.

I guess I just have the same reaction to it as if Porsche had built the world's best Minivan - one that could lap the Nurburgring faster than a 996 and still tow as much as a Chevy Minivan.

Why? and Who Cares? The world's fastest Minivan, the world's fastest SUV, the world's fastest RV, what's the difference?

The "jealousy" card, LOL, it's never long before that one is whipped out. The Cayenne is the second lowest priced vehicle in the Porsche line - costs no more than an Escalade, or other loaded domestic SUV's. It's not something that is going to elicit a lot of jealousy from anyone. I guess maybe someone who is jealous of a lightly loaded Boxster.

Ugly? Not so much as just plain homely. It has awful proportions, a profile with a big bulbous nose like Karl Malden, wheels that are too small for the body, etc.

For every person that walks up and complements one, how do you know there aren't 20 that think it is ugly? Most people, don't walk up to a car owner and say "Gee, that's a really ugly car you got there!"

I can't recall the last time I allowed a media outlet to sway my opinion, and CNN's will not keep me from buying a Cayenne as soon as I am able! :)

And, fwiw, I don't think it was a great stretch for Porsche to make a high-performance SUV . . . for obvious reasons.

BR,

Kurt

Are you sure it wasn't because you swerved and struck him with your super swamper mudders and chromed running boards? Do they make a lift kit for the Cayenne yet? :)

Seriously, the Cayenne is growing on me. Not for me, but still a nice ride.

j

The bottom line here is that Porsche is getting financially hurt by this me-too vehicle.

And with Boxster sales slumping, and 911 sales soft, they can't make enough Carrera GTs to make up for it.

Between this dumb move on Porsche's part and the Bangle-ization of current BMWs, the Germans seem to be just throwing it all to the Japanese.

I will never "Envie" a SUV even if it was built by Enzo himself back from the grave. However I do "fear" them considering the damage they can inflict on the 911 and yours truly.

Financially hurt?

"However, Porsche, which has one of the highest profit margins in the auto industry, posted a 22% rise in net profit to 565 million euros on a 15% increase in sales to 5.58 billion euros for the year ended July 31, 2003, powered by the launch of the Cayenne."

The full story:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article_id=7587

The bottom line has never looked better, IMHO.

Hopefully the 997 will be what it seems it might be from some of the recent real spy shots.

BR,

Kurt

(edit) P.S.: I am happy Porsche is still independent; imagine if the Company was snatched up by Ford or Daimler-Chrysler . . .

Curt...methinks thee protesteth too much...
:D

Imagine if that very thing happens 5-10 years from now, and imagine it was caused by brand dilution by the quick fix of a company like Porsche mass marketing a VW Golf engined SUV.

Cayenne sales are not what they were supposed to be, are advertised like heck at discounts, and have taken advantage of the pop that just about any new vehicle gets. Remember Boxster sales when that car first came out?

I guess we'll see.

Just wondering...shouldn't this be bumped to the OT board? Or...to perhaps guarantee even more obscurity..the Cayenne board?

since we're OT
 

Paul, I just saw your letter to editor published in the new R&T about Peter Egan's column(?) Never buy it anymore, so didn't see his last columns, but I like him. You and I are among the guys who remember Henry Manning around here. And Brock Yates, Uncle Tom McCahill, etc... ;)

Did you see the new BMW 6 series coupe in the magazine? I'd buy that in a NY minute if I had the loot to blow. :cool:

Kurt wrote:
------------------------------------
"However, Porsche, which has one of the highest profit margins in the auto industry, posted a 22% rise in net profit to 565 million euros on a 15% increase in sales to 5.58 billion euros for the year ended July 31, 2003, powered by the launch of the Cayenne."
------------------------

Unfortunately, that's more Cayenne sales to PCNA and dealers than to owners.

The current quarter should be a bit more indicative.

Brian:

I am not sure what the answer is re Porsche the Company.

Porsche does still build race cars, albeit they are not officially sponsored, but they are winning some big races. Porsche Motorsports is alive and kicking.

If the GT2 and now GT3 and GT3RS are not exciting cars, I am not sure what is.

And the CGT is awesome, and to many, represents the pinnacle of Porsche engineering so far.

If I had the cash, I would be working on a hot-rod longhood and put a 996TT Cab and TT Cayenne in the garage right now . . . and dream about a CGT.

Some have suggested a light-weight, reasonable priced car that would echo the halcyon days of Porsche. That's a great idea and I would welcome it. But, I wouldn't expect such a car to be exceptionally profitable; not like the Cayenne has already proved on paper.

Sales is Sales and the Cayenne is adding significantly, if not carrying the whole Company on its shoulders.

Re dilution, since the 911 there has been a 914, 924, 944 and derivatives and 928; there continue to be folks who are active and enthusiastic owners of all of the above. While some 911 owners might frown on the "derivatives", many of said cars helped Porsche pay the bills and learn something along the way.

I continue to be amazed at the number of folks here who refer to the Cayenne as a "truck" and fail to understand the engineering within this vehicle that has transcended so many boundaries . . . and ignore the standard set by hot laps that eclipse almost all production sports cars yet alone SUVs. Porsche has applied its rally history and knowledge gained in doing so to build the Cayenne -> It shows!

The only constant is change and I welcome it re Porsche; change is a great part of Porsche's heritage . . . and when it happens it is always controversial! :)

One can call the Cayenne ugly, but it is selling and it does perform.

My 2¢

BR,

Kurt

"Sales"

Does Porsche count a unit "sold" when it ships to PCNA or a dealer?

If so, that is news to me and perhaps I should not rely so heavily on the Company sales numbers.

Even if the numbers are half-right, the income and profit are significant. One still can't argue that the Cayenne does not perform, IMO.

Cheers!

Kurt