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I broke my Fuel Distributer!

Now I've done it. I broke it!

The last few days I had a faint fuel odor so I decided to investigate it last night.

To pressureize the system, I turned the key to on and lifted the plate in mixture control unit to get the fuel pump running.
I quickly noticed a tiny stream comming from the right side of the Fuel Distributer where the system pressure regulator screws in.
I had been fiddling with my pressures over the last few weeks and assumed I just needed to tighten up the copper seal.
I did so and rechecked. I made it worse. Looking closer with a mirror and lots of light I found that the casting cracked on the top of where regulator screws in.

I removed the fuel distributer (This was a 79 USA FD that sold to me as a rebuilt unit.)
I had another fuel distributer (81-83 USA) that was on the car when I bought it 2 years ago.) I installed this back on temporarily. (Haven't started it back up since it was about 1:30am when I got this finished.)

What to do?
My car is an 83 Euro SC. I replaced the 81-83 USA FD about a year ago with the 79USA model because I couldn't locate the correct Euro FD for my 930/10 engine.

My car runs lean in the midrange because of the mismatch in parts. I've tried lowering the warm control pressure but that's not going to get me where I want to be.(We'll see what happens with the 81-83 in the mext few days.)

Does anyone have a source for the correct FD for my car?
I have the Porsche part number at home, but I have never been able to find a cross refference to the bosch number or the bosch rebuilt number FDX __ .

If anybody can help me by reading the numbers off the tag on their FD that will be a great help so at least I will know what I'm looking for.

I opened up both my FD's to see what the differences were between the two. (US79 and US81-83)
The US 81-83 has the extra connection for the frequency valve control of the pressure on the bottom side of the plate.
They both have the same system pressure regulator. The one in the 79 was a little beefier (I think this was probably replaced on the rebuild.)
The top section (casting) of both looked identcle. (Including the little valves, springs and jets.

The 79 FD had some contamination a a little rust on the valve plate. The 81-83 was as clean as it could be. I'm thinking that this was actually a new bosch part when it was installed on the car about a year before I bought it.

The plunger looked simular on both except the screen and plastic part that holds it was discolored on the 79. I could not get a good look at the slits or their position and I couldn't figure out how to get the barrel out/off the top section.

The plunders were the same diameter but the 81-83 seemed a hair longer and the top fat section seemed longer.

This was a good experience for me because I have been trying to figure out what the differences are between the various fuel distributers. There are 3-4 different versions for the 3.0 liter SC's.
The most obvious is that the 81-83US had the lambda control of the lower section pressure. I'm trying to figure out what the differences is between the US 79 and the Euro 83.

Does anyone think the cracks could be welded or sealed any other way?
Thanks for your help!

Old 12-10-2003, 08:38 AM
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What is the part made of? Aluminum?
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Old 12-10-2003, 08:53 AM
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Try this stuff.....seriously... http://www.alumaloy.com/
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Old 12-10-2003, 08:55 AM
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forget welding it, i think it is casted metal? once when i was a kid i tried to weld a handle back on a cast iron pan, it wasnt pretty. my welding skill still suk, so maybe dont listen to me. but there are two really good porsche salvage yards in my area, i bet they will have one. one place sells rebuilt units, but they charge a core charge, so maybe quit monkeying around with your uncracked one. haha. pm me if you want me to check with them.

cliff
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Old 12-10-2003, 08:56 AM
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Thanks for the reply. It's heavy. On the underside where it's machined it is dark like cast iron. It's definately not aluminum. Too Heavy.
I think I've herd some of the early Carerras (CIS) had aluminum FD's.
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81 Targa Guards Red
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Old 12-10-2003, 08:56 AM
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Cliff, please check. My problem is that I don't know the bosch part number. The porsche number is usually not on the plate.
The bottom part that cracked is pretty much just a casting. I could possibly just replace that part if the guy has one lying arround.
This 79FD is 911 110 967 00 Porsche (Bosch FD22X Rebuilt)
I think I remember the Euro porsche number to be 911 110 977 00 or 01
Thanks for your help!
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81 Targa Guards Red
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83 ROW CAB Rubinrot Metallic (RIP)
Old 12-10-2003, 09:02 AM
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Wayne, suggested JB weld for sealing areas on the case in his rebuild book. Maybe that would work?
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81 Targa Guards Red
3.6, M&K 1 out, S4 brakes
83 ROW CAB Rubinrot Metallic (RIP)
Old 12-10-2003, 09:08 AM
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Cast Iron? Hmm, that sounds unusual. I could see the use of white/pot metal for a part like this.

In any case refer to the products I posted above. They have different versions for:

- Aluminum, mag-alloys, white metal or pot metal, zinc based metal and galvanized metal.

- Steel

- Cast Iron


It is stronger than JB weld and can be machined, tapped, drilled etc.
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Old 12-10-2003, 09:24 AM
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wayne suggest JB weld to cover up areas that are plugged. i think the pressure of the fuel will get by any JB weld patch. i would do it right, believe me, i am a huge fan of the "jerry rig". but now we are talking about fire prevention also. if you sprung a leak, it would be like another fuel injector spraying into your engine compartment.
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Old 12-10-2003, 09:25 AM
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Hi William,

Sorry to hear you are still struggling with your CIS. I've been too busy to keep up, but as unfix said, I'd not fool with welding it. If you can't use the two distributors that you have to create one (things matching), them just try to get a use one. I don't think welding it is going to be worth the effort and risk. There are lots of used distributors out there, you just have to look.

What indication are you using to determine that you have a lean spot? When you say lean what AF ratio are you talking about?

If the lean in that spot is not so drastic, you can foul the system a bit. I sent you a PM about the air sensor plate height. Did you get it? It's been awhile, so I can't recall all the problems you are having.
Old 12-10-2003, 09:38 AM
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Oh! I forgot to ask:

Rick, have you used the products you provided the link to? I seem to recall years ago there were TV commercials for those rods. Never tried it, but have always been curious.
Old 12-10-2003, 09:40 AM
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what was wrong with the FD in the first place to warrant changing it to the 79 one? i got the salvage guy to check around. but if you want to call him yourself, ask for jeff at parts heaven. 1-800-767-7250.

cliff
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Old 12-10-2003, 09:53 AM
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William, if all else fails, I have two fuel distributors in my garage. I'm not ready to part with them yet, but we can talk. I got my hands on what may be a 79 Euro CIS, and I also have a lambda based CIS. I'm working one a project that I need them for, but I may be able to part with the lambda based FD soon.
Old 12-10-2003, 09:57 AM
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Souk,

I have the Aluminum rods and have to say I'm very satisfied with the results. IMO, they perform as advertised. Another good brand is made by Muggy weld.

In fact I'm tempted to fabricate an intercooler using these rods. From what I've see they are well suited for the task.

Here are some videos of Muggy in action.... http://www.muggyweld.com/video.html
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Last edited by RickM; 12-10-2003 at 10:08 AM..
Old 12-10-2003, 10:00 AM
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SOUK,
I was just toyimg with the idea of the patch.
I think if it's welded (If someone can actually weld it.) It would be plenty safe. I would seriously consider it if this was in fact the right FD for my car. I have been screwing arround with it for some time now that it was almost time to move on anyway. The fact that I broke it will probably force me to finally get the right one for the car.
The original CIS system was the 83 ROW setup. Engine 930/10.
This is very simular to the eariler ROW cars and the last US cars that used K-basic (The 1979.) In fact most of the parts are identicle except the fuel distributer and the mixture control unit. The Control pressure regulator is now updated to the same number for these cars.
When I bought the car it had the US 81-83 FD installed in it with a bolt plugging the fuel line connection for the frequency valve. It also had the 81-83 WUR installed. Because the fine tuning of the mixture and acceleration enrichment are handled by the frequency valve. That WUR was simplified and maintained higher control pressures. It really became just used to lower control pressure for warm up.

The cone (for the metering plate) in the k-lambda cars had single angle.
This is because the computer and frequency valve provided the needed enrichment for various engine needs.

The k-basic cone actually has 3 angles. The angle of the cone is steep where the plate hovers when the engine is idling. This creates a rich mixture at idle and for transition. Above this point the angle is less steep which provides a leaner mixture during cruising and light acceleration. The top of the cone get's steep again to provide a richer mixture ar higher RPM's and air flow. The mixture is also richened by the WUR. This WUR has an second vacuum connection which goes to manifold vacuum.
For acceleration, vacuum drops as the throttle opens. This reduces the vacuum in the lower section of the WUR which in turn lowers the control pressure which allows the plate to rise further and allowing more fuel to flow.

My lean condition exceeds 17:1 (the top of my meter) at times during cruising and light acceleration. This is were the plate is in the center section of the cone. Where it is supposed to be lean but I doubt that high. (All this theory is presented in the Blue Bosh book by Probst.) Thete are no application specific data so I don't know how lean they intended to allow the mixture to go. I doubt it was this high because there is little effect on CO and Oxides and HC begin to rise again.
The engine really loses power in this midrange. As the engine speed increases above 4000 the mixture starts to richen.

I can tune the mixture setting so that the mid range A/F is richer, but the trade off is that it is way too rich at idle. Below the 12:1 range on the meter. I lowered the warm control pressure a bit (46psi) to allow the
flow sensor to move with less resistance. (This helped but reduced the amoun the pressure can drop based on the vacuum enrichment which cannot be adjusted. (I think it's 39 psi warm).
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Old 12-10-2003, 11:09 AM
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Cliff, I called your guy Jeff. He hasn't been able to locate the Euro distributer yet but will continue to look.
If anyone has the bosch part number it would really help!
Thanks!
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81 Targa Guards Red
3.6, M&K 1 out, S4 brakes
83 ROW CAB Rubinrot Metallic (RIP)
Old 12-10-2003, 11:15 AM
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William, does the Porsche part number look like any of the numbers found on this page?

http://members.rennlist.com/jimwms/CIS/CIShome.html

I'll look at the FD I have at home tonight (it is suppose to be a Euro 79 dist.)


My car runs very rich at idle. I've not fitted an AF meter to it yet. I'm also runner 30-35 degrees of advance so rich is desired.


Have you put your meter on an SC that is stock?
Old 12-10-2003, 11:26 AM
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I found my note:
The porsche part number for the FD is 911 110 977 00
This is for the 930/10 ROW engine.

I have both the: FD36X = us 81-83 and FD22X = us 78-79 (Broken)

The 79 US specs are very rich at idle setting up to 3.5% CO (+/- 13:1)
The 82-83 ROW is a little leaner setting 1.0-2.0% CO (+/- 14:1)
This is with air pump disconnected. US before the cat ROW has no Cat

I just confirmed with my book that the ROW FD changed in 82 to the one I am looking for. This is I assume with the higher compression.

What's the number for the 80-81 ROW. (I think it's still the FD22X)
The renlist CIS Primer only has USA parts listed.
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Old 12-10-2003, 11:43 AM
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Hey Bill, give me a shout when you are free, I will bring my 79SC over and you can look at my fuel distributor. It has been replaced not too long ago, and you could compare it to the FD setup in your '83. Plus you could check out the o-rings for my pop-off valve. Let me know when you are available to meet up.
Old 12-10-2003, 01:12 PM
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As far as trying to weld the fuel distributor I would definitely say "no" The fuel distributor is cast and to weld cast properly you have to do several things.

First, grind a vee grove in the crack to at least three quarter way through to make full penetration when you weld. Second you have to drill a hole at each end of the crack to keep it from traveling when you weld it. And thirdly and most importantly, you have to pre-heat the metal before you start welding on it.

So, unless you find a really good welder who has experience welding on cast iron, I wouldn't fool with it. It could get you in trouble with a fire in the engine compartment.

Steve

"A Porsche does more then just go fast in a straight line"

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Old 12-10-2003, 01:51 PM
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