Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Senior Member
 
Jdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great NorthWest
Posts: 3,854
Rear Suspension Rebuild: Bearings also?

Hello all:

Following up the rebuild of my front suspension I am now turning my borderline talents to the rear suspension.

I plan on replacing the spring plate bushings with Neatrix, upgrading the t-bars, and performing a clean and grease of the axles. I will pull the spring plates, etc. for repainting. Like the front suspension, I do not want to remove the caliper and force a rebleed (pads, calipers, rotors all new at this time).

I have no plans on replacing the banana arm bushings or the axle bearings. Is this wise? I understand the "while you're in there" model but am antsy to get this baby back on the road.

If I decide to tackle the banana arm bushings and axle bearing at a later date will I need to realign/corner balance?

Many thanks guys!
John

__________________
'78 Targa | WANTED TO BUY - NORTON COMMANDO PARTS - PLS MESSAGE.
Old 12-11-2003, 08:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
IROC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 10,823
Garage
Replacing the rear wheel bearings won't require an alignment or corner balance unless you remove the banana arm to replace them. Having said that - I wouldn't replace them if their not broke. Rear wheel bearings are amazingly robust and can last a long time.

I am about to replace the original left rear wheel bearing on my car. It has withstood 27 years of use with quite a bit of track time with 275/40 tires in the rear....

Mike
__________________
Mike
1976 Euro 911
3.2 w/10.3 compression & SSIs
22/29 torsions, 22/22 adjustable sways, Carrera brakes
Old 12-11-2003, 08:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
SCWDP- Shock and Awe Dept
 
surflvr911sc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Norco, CA
Posts: 3,308
Garage
I have done all of that at separate times and would highly suggest doing it all at once. My old bearings would probably have lasted me another 50k but I feel better knowing that they are done. They will be much easier to replace off the car.

The trailing arm bushing would be a PITA to do on the car if you could even do it, so at least do that now (think, monoballs). Donít worry about having to bleed the brakes, itís easy and itís something you should really get good at and feel comfortable doing anyway.
Old 12-11-2003, 08:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Jdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great NorthWest
Posts: 3,854
Mike and Ryan:

Sounds like the luck of the draw...and the history on the bearing.

Truth be told, I don't want to get into the brake system because I don't want to risk cross-threading the brake hard line into the caliper proper. I learned this when I rebuild my calipers some two years back.

I could break the brake hard line connection at the b-arm, but if I can avoid it I'd rather not touch them - they are working just fine now.

John
__________________
'78 Targa | WANTED TO BUY - NORTON COMMANDO PARTS - PLS MESSAGE.
Old 12-11-2003, 11:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
SCWDP- Shock and Awe Dept
 
surflvr911sc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Norco, CA
Posts: 3,308
Garage
Quote:
Originally posted by Jdub
I could break the brake hard line connection at the b-arm, but if I can avoid it I'd rather not touch them - they are working just fine now.
That's where I usually disconnect my rear calipers. If itís been two years a fluid flush wouldnít hurt.
Old 12-11-2003, 11:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
KTL KTL is offline
Schleprock
 
KTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Frankfort IL USA
Posts: 16,246
I'd bet that the banana arm rubber bushes are just as bad or worse off than the spring plate bushings. That's how mine were/are. I didn't do my bananas because the motor and trans are in the way on G50 cars. They look kinda bad too. The rubber is splitting everywhere (looks like tree bark), so they're probably a little sloppy compared to new.

Good thing you have an SC so you don't need to remove the drivetrain! I didn't have the space or equipment to take the drivetrain out at the time. Anyway, arm has to come off so you can heat the arm a bit and drive out the old bushes.

Rear wheel bearings are sealed units and are traditionally much longer-lived than those like the front. I wouldn't bother with them, but that's just me.

Brake bleeding isn't anything too hectic in this case. Just depress and hold the pedal in place with a piece of wood. A few pumps upon reinstallation and they're bled just fine in no time?
__________________
Kevin L
Present: '86 Carrera, '79 911SC widebody conversion rolling racecar shell
Past: '87 Carrera
Old 12-11-2003, 11:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Randy Webb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Planet Eugene
Posts: 4,348
Do all the rubber (all!) and leave the bearings unless they move when you test them.
Old 12-11-2003, 11:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Chuck Moreland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 5,665
I'm firmly in the "do it once, do it right" camp. While you have the rear end apart is the time to do it all. Renew all the wear items and drive the car with confidence.

All the bushings are a given. The rear wheel bearings are not that expensive and are a whole lot easier to do now with the arms off the car.
__________________
Chuck Moreland - elephantracing.com - vonnen.com
Old 12-11-2003, 11:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Los Alamos, NM, USA
Posts: 6,044
Rear wheel bearings are typically destroyed in the removal process. Installation requires the right tooling (either purchased or made) and procedures; one cannot simple "pound" the new bearings onto the spindle or into the trailing arm bore or they will have a very short life. Cheers, Jim
Old 12-11-2003, 03:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Used User
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
Posts: 32,122
A little OT, but it was brought up. When threading your hard line into the caliper, it is real easy if the caliper is unbolted from the arm. You can cinch the flare nut once the caliper has been bolted back up.
__________________
My FB page: www.facebook.com/oddjobfix
Antique and Collectibles Repair and Restoration
Old 12-11-2003, 06:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Jdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great NorthWest
Posts: 3,854
I've had a chance to review all my docs and other collateral on the rear end and I must say I am beginning to think I ought to just have at it, doing the swingarm bushings and the bearings as well.

I have John Walker handy to do the R&R on the bearings, so that would save me from buying the Baum B90 tool. I might have him handle the bushings as well...

Tell me about the diff. on the SC and Carrera on removing the swingarms? The bolts on my car aim outward, away from the trans: is this going to mean just pull the bolt and the swingarm will come out/

Finally, should I remove the castle nut at the stub axle while the car is weighted, with wheels, or can I just hand the swingarm plus axleshaft to John and he will have no problem breaking that nut off?

Many thanks guys!
John
__________________
'78 Targa | WANTED TO BUY - NORTON COMMANDO PARTS - PLS MESSAGE.
Old 12-12-2003, 07:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,444
John,

You will want the car weighted when you loosen the castle nut. I wouldn't want to stand on the end of a 3 foot breaker bar with the car on jack stands.
__________________
Neil
'73 911S targa
Old 12-12-2003, 07:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
SCWDP- Shock and Awe Dept
 
surflvr911sc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Norco, CA
Posts: 3,308
Garage
The emergency brake worked fine for me to remove the axle nut. Break it loose before you take everything apart.
Old 12-12-2003, 09:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Jdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great NorthWest
Posts: 3,854
Ryan, I am glad to hear that because the car is on jackstands now and I really don't want to have to lower everything for this nut.

Now, will that swingarm just drop out given that my bolts are "aimed" towards the outside of the car rather than the trans?

Many thanks guys. I am just AMAZED at the amount of knowledge in the archives. I have enought overlapping topics on this and other subjects that really put the manuals to shame.

Also, as a technical writer, I am getting really tired of marking up my SC Bentley to remove the Carrera references. Example: stub axle must be driven out to remove axleshaft, Carrera wiring diagram for flag mirror, etc.

John

EDIT: Link to errata sheet at Bentley site: http://www.bentleypublishers.com/gallery.htm?code=p983&seqnum=4.
__________________
'78 Targa | WANTED TO BUY - NORTON COMMANDO PARTS - PLS MESSAGE.

Last edited by Jdub; 12-12-2003 at 09:44 AM..
Old 12-12-2003, 09:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
SCWDP- Shock and Awe Dept
 
surflvr911sc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Norco, CA
Posts: 3,308
Garage
Don't remember 100% but I think you should be able to get them out regardless of the direction w/ a 915.

Glad to hear you are leaning towards doing it all now, youíll be glad you did.
Old 12-12-2003, 09:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Binge User
 
Schrup's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Glass House
Posts: 3,245
John, I removed the swing arm (I'm doing one side at a time) with the hub, bearings & E-brake in place. I don't plan to replace the bearings unless I have to. The bannana arm was easy to get out, & I cut the end of the bushings off with a sawzall & punched out the center. The b!tch was getting the torsion bar out, I made a make shift slide hammer with a small sledge, tie wire & vise grips. I pretty much got my front suspension on last night, just need to torque everything down. Superman suggested I take my CV joints apart to inspect them. Think I'll do a bit more research before taking that on.


__________________
Paul
Old 12-12-2003, 09:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Jdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great NorthWest
Posts: 3,854
Paul:

So you went ahead and removed the emerg. brake cable, the swingarm bolt at the tbar tube, and the shock and swingplate locations? I guess that is all it would take to drop that arm.

How about getting the new swingarm bushing(s) in - will that require a press of any sort? Do you plan on farming that work out?

I priced the bearings here and they are all of about $100.00 a set. That seems very reasonable and I figure to replace them as per Chuck's advice.

The CV joint regrease seems pretty straightforward from what I have read in our archives. I figure to do that using the Mobil1 synth/moly grease I used for the A-arm bushings.

Nice shots BTW. For the front A-arm bushings, I put the zirks way over on the outside, about 8-90'clock, but then again I had to file a small halfcircle in my covers for the grease gun's end plug-to-zirk. I also sawed off the tow loops on the covers since one was essentially gone, the other scraped and distorted. Now I have covers that I filed smooth. This was probably not a good idea but they didn't match and I can always source a set on the Classified board.

Compressing the A-arm bushing cups towards one another (really, pushing the front cup to the crossmember) was a bit of a bear. I know that many on this 'board used a wood clamp - I had no luck with that. Instead, I took a huge screwdriver and wedged it such that, with the front bushing cup cover on, and it's frontmost bolt handtight, I could lever against the cover so that the front bushing cup was forced towards the crossmember/rear bushing cup, thus removing any fore to aft slop.

I just cannot wait to get this done and the car on the road. However, I also have a valve job awaiting me and I need to put the door reinforcement kit in and a set of stainless "paddles" for the door handles (Rennline).

John
__________________
'78 Targa | WANTED TO BUY - NORTON COMMANDO PARTS - PLS MESSAGE.
Old 12-12-2003, 11:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Binge User
 
Schrup's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Glass House
Posts: 3,245
John, I opted for the polygraphite bushings for the bannana arms as well. They were half the price & just slip in with out a press as there is no metel sleeves. I did take the brakes completely off my car before I started removing anything. I had just redone the entire system & am very familiar with it now, as I will be with the suspension when I'm done with it. Here is a pic of one of my A-arms soaking in the parts cleaner, I didn't let the bearings get wet.


I will also have to modify my covers for the zerts.
__________________
Paul
Old 12-12-2003, 12:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Jdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great NorthWest
Posts: 3,854
Thought I would follow up on this thread...

New bearings went in, as did new OEM swingarm bushings. Warmed swingarm end in hot water, twice, pulled bushings from freezer and used a rubber hammer to finish the job in. The measurement you need to hit is 5.5cm, side to side.

I never, ever, ever want to have to pull those Neatrix springarm bushings out of the car to reindex. Wil, I am counting on your and Thom's specs to save me from myself. Measured the tbars out at 28 degrees exactly, set the spring plate to dead center, centerpunched the relation between the outer short plate and the longer plate with two marks, and bolted the springarm to the swingarm which went in without trouble (due to being very sure my 5.5cm measurement was good -- used just a tad of grease to slide it in).

Shock is now back on, and the whole arrangement is very sano indeed. Bright silver swingarms, gold swingplates and bolts all polished. Nice yellow Sport Bilsteins and now all I need to do is get my axles in, emergency brake hooked up, shave the emergency brake shoes so that they don't ever rub on the inside of the hub, then clean/install caliper, hose and bleed it out.

I'll keep you posted as I go.

John
__________________
'78 Targa | WANTED TO BUY - NORTON COMMANDO PARTS - PLS MESSAGE.
Old 01-28-2004, 07:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Binge User
 
Schrup's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Glass House
Posts: 3,245
John, I hope you have better luck with your axles than I did. I bought one new CVjoint & tried to reuse the other three. I'm not sure if I didn't get them back together right or what, but they didn't articulate properly as did the new one. So I ordered three new ones that I will attempt to install tomorrow. I also torqued everything down before I installed the axles & had to go back & losen it all up to have enough play to get them in.

I don't know if God cheated me out of the full measure of common sense, but it seems I have to learn an inordinate amount of things the hard way.

__________________
Paul
Old 01-28-2004, 01:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:36 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.