Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 4.80 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
1fastredsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 2,459
Send a message via AIM to 1fastredsc
Looking good, looks like your really jumping into this with two feet.
__________________
2007 Mazda 3 hatch
1972 Porsche 914 roller with plenty of holes to fix
Old 01-02-2004, 09:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clarita
Posts: 404
Looks like you (and the rest of us anxiously waiting) are one step closer. Looks really good. Sign me up to be one of the first ones on the first batch of kits.
Old 01-02-2004, 10:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #62 (permalink)
Binge User
 
Schrup's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Glass House
Posts: 3,226
Tony, I am interested, will keep tabs on your progress. Good Luck
__________________
Paul
Old 01-02-2004, 10:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #63 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
ohecht's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 913
Tony,

I have been following your project and Megasquirt for some time now, and have always planned to eventually convert to EFI, despite the quirks and charm of CIS. I have also looked at the TEC-3 solution Clewett offers.

I just read this entire thread and your entire summary of the prototypical install, and here are my thoughts as a potential customer:

- The quality of work and attention to detail comes through in your initial work, I would preserve that for building customer confidence when you eventually market the product(s).

- The fuel rails are concerning, since they must be able to contain fuel under pressure over thousands of hours of engine heat cycles, vibration, road jolts, etc. This part should be over-engineered and over-tested (time, vibration, pressure, installation/removal, etc/) similar to what OEMs must do to avoid leaks, fires, and potential liability. Whatever testing and QC you do on this should come through in the product descriptions to build customer confidence in the safety of the system. It is a small thing if the system does't work well, but people and cars being hurt by engine fires is another thing entirely.

- Maybe include an option of a better-looking cut-down CIS airbox if you can find a source to cut up for people who want a reversible installation and the clean look. You could even incorporate a "logo" plate on that square top portion of the cut-down airbox that is crying out for something to be there.

- The TPS solution you came up with looks very well done, but I am concerned about how the screw into the tapped pivot rod end would hold up over time. I would guess the factory ones have the end of the rod machined, so there is no chance of anything coming loose over miles of throttle movement in both directions. Red Loctite (which you may already use) would probably do a lot in this area, but I am just trying to think of things that could go wrong after millions of typical cycles caused by owner use, maintenance, etc. If this is a valid concern, maybe you could supply a machined rod that the customers could install in their TBs in place of the factory one.

- I would be more interested in a system that handles ingition as well, just to have an integrated solution, but I agree with everyone that having various kits allows you to capture much more of the market.

Keep up the great work on this idea!

Olivier
__________________
Olivier Hecht
1982 911SC

Last edited by ohecht; 01-03-2004 at 06:13 AM..
Old 01-03-2004, 06:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #64 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 769
ohecht,

Thanks for your suggestions.

Most of the parts for the kit will be very different from my prototype. The prototype was OK for a one-of conversion which I keep a close eye on, but it is not for production. I will post details as each part becomes available. Folks will be more than welcome to critique each of the components.

Cheers,

Tony
__________________
Tony
'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit
Old 01-03-2004, 01:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #65 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 769
Folks have asked for a partial kit. With that in mind, I've set up a web page where people can buy various pieces for the conversion. First off are the injector bungs.

Click below for details:
http://www.geocities.com/tbitz/for_sale/Parts_for_sale.html

Cheers,

Tony
__________________
Tony
'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit

Last edited by tbitz; 01-03-2004 at 01:25 PM..
Old 01-03-2004, 01:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #66 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Elombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,112
Looking great! I agree that fuel rail is a little scary. Isnt there something you could just put together with aeroquip and off the shelf fittings. Something that would just screw together?

Initially I was only interested in a kit. But I see now how I could save money by buying used pieces (injectors) and/or doing some of the fab myself and saving lots of money. Just in the areas that I am comfortable with. I am not interested in an ignition option also unless it is cheap and gets rid of the coil and distributor. I can buy a used Clewett ignition set up for $7-800 and would rather go that route.

One thing. I am interested in building a higher compression (single plug) "s" type cam motor. This system wont be affected by intake pulses and high over lap cams like a CIS right?
__________________
erik.lombard@gmail.com
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - interesting!
84 lime green back date (LWB 911R) SOLD
RSR look hot rod, based on 75' SOLD
73 911t 3.0SC Hot rod Gulf Blue - Sold.
Old 01-03-2004, 07:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #67 (permalink)
Registered User
 
makaio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 4,403
Nice work Tony!
Old 01-04-2004, 06:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #68 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally posted by Elombard
Looking great! I agree that fuel rail is a little scary. Isnt there something you could just put together with aeroquip and off the shelf fittings. Something that would just screw together?....
The rails will not be made from little pieces welded together, too much work involved. I am currently looking at single piece extruded rails with aeroquip socketless fittings.
__________________
Tony
'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit
Old 01-04-2004, 07:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #69 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 769
Update

I've had some emails asking how things are going, so here is an update.

I think I have a solution for the fuel rails. They are single piece extrusions, custom machined for the 911 injector spacing. Ends are tapped for -6AN fittings. Fitting is sealed to fuel rail with an O-ring.

I've just finished making some brackets for the rails. They are solid. You could lift the engine from the fuel rails if you wanted.

It is time consuming making the brackets. They look simple, but like everything they are not. The metal is bent and twisted to get things to line up. Don't ask how many I made before I got things right. I need to find a shop that can make these, cus I don't want to be doing it.

Here are a few pictures.

__________________
Tony
'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit
Old 01-15-2004, 03:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #70 (permalink)
Mark Wilson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Those are pretty!!
Old 01-15-2004, 03:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #71 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jriera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Posts: 1,587
Send a message via AIM to jriera Send a message via Yahoo to jriera
Looks great Tony!!
__________________
Jordi Riera
'84 930 (modified)
Old 01-15-2004, 03:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #72 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: West Chester PA
Posts: 705
WOW!!!!
__________________
Jeff C
95 993 - RS Sways, Big Reds, Penske valved Bilstien Dampers
Old 01-15-2004, 03:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #73 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan Cottrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Yakima, WA
Posts: 592
Garage
Quote:
Originally posted by Elombard
One thing. I am interested in building a higher compression (single plug) "s" type cam motor. This system wont be affected by intake pulses and high over lap cams like a CIS right?
unfortunatly I think you will run into problems with this system and high overlap cams like the "s" cam.

because the intake runners share a common plentum other cylinders will be disrupted by air reversion into the plentum.

there's a thread over in the engine building forum right now that addresses this issue. the title is something like "individual throttle bodies vs. flowed carrera intake"
__________________
big AL
'77 911
Old 01-15-2004, 03:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #74 (permalink)
Stahlwerks.com
 
jhelgesen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 4,256
Send a message via Yahoo to jhelgesen
Tony, great progress. I would say a shop that can waterjet or laser cut the brackets from 6061 aluminum would be best. I know a few in my neck of the woods and could help out if needed.
__________________
John Helgesen
Stahlwerks.com restoration and cage design

"Honest men know that revenge does not taste sweet"
Old 01-15-2004, 04:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #75 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Zendalar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,206
WOW....

And here i was thinking that i would just use rubber hose for the fuel rails...

How much for those ??
__________________
Projects:
911 -72T EFI "964-look" "Smoky"
914 -71 1.7 D-JET "Rusty"
Old 01-15-2004, 09:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #76 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 769
John,

The brackets are actually made of 0.100" thick steel not aluminium. I did make one from 0.125" thick aluminium, but the steel is stiffer. Thanks for the offer to help, I will try some local places first.

Zendalar,

I have not determined pricing for the rails yet.

Tony
__________________
Tony
'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit
Old 01-16-2004, 05:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #77 (permalink)
JTO JTO is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rogue Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,735
Nice job Tony. You are keeping us tantalized!

Troy
__________________
Troy
Past: 1975 911S Silver Anniversary-rebuilt and sublime.
Past: 1988 Carrera-backdated with a 3.6 and all the goodies.
Present: 2011 GMC 2500HD with the 6.0 & 4x4!, 2004 Toyota Sequoia (wife's)
Old 01-16-2004, 08:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #78 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 769
Update

Spent the last few days (and nights) putting together the 'brains' of the CIS-to-EFI kit (Megasquirt).

I opted for a case with flanged ends instead of the standard one as this will make mounting easier. Also instead of routing the vacuum line directly into the MS unit and causing mechanical stress on the sensor, I've placed a barbed fitting on the panel. This way you don't have to open up the MS unit to install the vacuum hose.

All units will be tested to make sure everything is working before they go out the door.

__________________
Tony
'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit
Old 01-23-2004, 06:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #79 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tbitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 769
I've downloaded the latest version of MegaTune 2.16 (by Eric Fahlgren) to test out the units. There are some new features since the last version. Gauges now have a ghost pointer which shows the historical peak value (ie: RPM, Manifold pressure, etc). Gauges can change color once a used defined maximum is exceeded.

Other new features I saw are:
-Absolute Rev limiter (fuel cuts on a user defined RPM)
-Launch Control Rev Limit (and you thought only formula one cars had this)
-Upper and Lower shift lights

Megasquirt keeps getting more and more cool.
__________________
Tony
'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit
Old 01-23-2004, 06:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #80 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:49 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.