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MIK911's Avatar
 
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All I know is that it FEELS better driving my car w/ SteveW's chip in it. Period. Plus his customer service is unparalleled.
Steve met me during the TRE rally NewYearsDay, at the Reel Inn rendevous, and installed a new, updated chip for me on the spot. How's that for service!!
He left me with the my other modified chip so i can compare the two, and keep the one i like better.

Steve--i'll send you the other chip after i get some milage/testing (seat-of-pants) done. or if you're at Dunkels next month, we'll hook up there.

Thanks
Mike
'86 coupe

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Old 01-06-2004, 11:13 AM
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Would'nt people be returning chips to Steve W as per his money back pledge if they did'nt like them? I haven't seen one post saying that a customer of Steve's has returned the chip. Mine is going in the next few weekends, if it does'nt work Steve's gettin it back and I'll let everyone know the deal. If I spend money and think I got burned I'll scream. Period
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Old 01-06-2004, 06:35 PM
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If Steve W is that good of a "snake oil" salesman that he has so many satisfied customers and no people posting complaints, then I say Steve is wasting his time on chips. He should try to control the world (or at least run for President). After all, according to Loren Steve has the ability to deceive the masses. Sounds like a politician to me.

Funny thing: the only person who posts an opposition to Steve's chips does not own one.
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Old 01-06-2004, 07:03 PM
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I can see where Loren and Embs are coming from:
Exaggerated claims from other chip makers in the past has made all chip makers claims a little suspect. A certain amount of skepticism is to be expected.
The placebo effect is a powerful one - just because everyone loves it, doesn't make it true.

That said, Steve doesn't make wild claims and if everyone likes his chip, might it be (gasp!) because they work?
-Chris
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Old 01-06-2004, 07:13 PM
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I have read with great interest the apposing views of Steve's product, describing it as "snake oil" along with the advice to go ahead and just spend money to help the economy along. Now I work hard for my money and I want to spend wisely on the upgrades to my car so instead of being a "fool" and buying Steve's chip for my car which has been recommended by everyone that has bought one, I should do what? Now Loren has suggested some mods that he feels are more cost effective on the various performance chip threads both here and on Rennlist but I do not remember anybody doing those modifications and posting the results. If somebody has and I missed it I apologize in advance. As a newbie to the board I prefer to take the majority opinion on what works and what does not on upgrading performance and so far my money will be going for a Steve w chip. ric
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Old 01-06-2004, 09:39 PM
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Yes, most chips only control fuel and spark but to call this "snake oil" is far from truth.

Yes, engine is just an airpump but there is a lot to be gained by fiddling with air and fuel. In the end, it's detonating air/fuel mixture that turn's this pump.

I've seen dyno pulls on otherwise stock BMW M3's that have raisen power up with 35HP.

What they actually do is to trade some of margins built in the ECU for extra power. Cars can be subjected to different fuel qualities and manufacturers usually play it safe, at least those without knock-controll.

Now if you go to turbocharged cars, you can really se some substantial improvements with only Matrix-like code geeking, yes. How much? As much as 30% more power...yes i mean thirty percent more power by chip menas only. Trionic 7 ECU measures cylinder pressure to determine torque...and is mapped to retain same torque regardless the fuel quality. So you can raise torque maps for higher-octane fuels and change boost maps, effectively changing your engine characteristics completly...but this stuff might be hard to explain to someone who has hard time understanding electronics.

So my answer is: yes, chips work, and no, it's not snake oil...but results may vary depending on your engine configuration.

Loren: I really don't see a problem with displaying dyno pappers in Newtonmeters and Kilowatts, it's childs play to convert those to non-SI units if you know anything about cars and physics. Actually, i wouldn't trust a mechanic that cannot convert between torque units.
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Old 01-07-2004, 01:11 AM
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I have never said Steve W is a snake oil salesman, I have no personal experience with his product, I have no real data from his product. All I have said was that I used to fall for all sorts of hype from many people selling products that make bull$hit claims and now I don't. Some of those products were chips.


Once again: A chip can lean or richen, advance or retard and THAT IS IT, PERIOD. A chip can't force more air into the cylinder or increase displacement. A Chip can't change the lift / duration of the valves (on a 911/964/993 engine). The minor amount of horsepower a chip ALONE could add/generate does not go beyond the margin of HP difference from one engine to another straight from the factory. Ask John Walker, ask the folks at Andial, wipe the haze from your eyes and come to the conclusion that "There ain't no free lunch".


People are so petty and desperate for cheap HP, this is really a joke. If you guys remember this thread in a few years, you will be telling others NOT to fall for the hype.


Further claims need to be supported by data. Statements like: "I can feel the difference" or "I know it's faster" , "I have seen dyno pulls" etc. etc. are all trash without data.


SHOW ME THE DATA, UN-BIASED THIRD PARTY DATA. Otherwise you guys might as well buy an Eram to complement your chip. There are to many "salesmen" and not enough "engineers", don't SELL it if you can't PROVE it.

Last edited by Embs; 01-07-2004 at 04:07 AM..
Old 01-07-2004, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by beepbeep
...but this stuff might be hard to explain to someone who has hard time understanding electronics.
What is this man the school yard? Support your claims with data if you have real claims to support.
Old 01-07-2004, 04:00 AM
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Wild Claims! What do do call this? From the "so called" performance chip
web site.

Welcome to 911Chips - developer of custom_performance chips for the Porsche 911 Carrera that maximize the performance available from your car._ Chips are currently available for the Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 series from 84-89 and the Carrera 2/4 series from 91-94, and are custom configured to each customer's engine modifications and preferences._ Performance improvements quite dramatic, as horsepower and torque are_increased throughout the powerband from 2000 rpm to redline on the order of 6 to 8 percent._ Throttle response is also dramatically improved_as it changes the_stock Carrera's_lag_to one of an immediate response._ Owners are raving about the dramatic improvement in their car's character,_drivability, and power.__Come try one for yourself and experience what your Porsche is truly capable of.

What do dramatic and maximize mean? Is this hype or what?
"Throttle response is also dramatically improved_as it changes the_stock Carrera's_lag_to one of an immediate response."
Kinda like supercharging maybe!

Furthermore, customs without even testing for the mods? Let's get real!
"and are custom configured to each customer's engine modifications
and preferences." Please!

Have Fun with your FEELINGS
Loren
'88 3.2
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Old 01-07-2004, 06:51 AM
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Another Point:

Andial says on their web site (www.andial.com) FAQ - Question 2 that 5%
is max. from a REPUTABLE source. Here the claim is 6 to 8%.

But, let's assume 8% and dream on:

Remember, HP = Torque x RPMs, then

Assuming a flat torque curve (which is optimistic at best);

At 6000 RPMs a 3.2 has about 210 hp & with 8% that's about 16 hp increase
At 3000 RPMs a 3.2 has about 100 hp & with 8% that's about 8 hp increase

Since the torque is less than the 100 assumed and most of the driving is at
<<6000 RPMs, the 8 hp increase is not much to write home about. That's surely
not dramatic! When you consider the possible pinging, idling, driveability
problems, and all that octane booster, is it worth the costs? I don't think so!

Donate your money to a good charity. It will be better spent!

Have Fun with your FEELINGS
Loren
'88 3.2
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Old 01-07-2004, 07:38 AM
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The one KEY point forgotten:

It is ASSUMED that there's a 6 to 8% increase!

Have to love those FEELINGS, though.
Loren
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Old 01-07-2004, 08:04 AM
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Man, Some of you guys must be on DOPE. First of all, if you want to sell a product (ie my way or product is better than his) talk about the benefits of your product and don't disparage the competition. Lorenfb pretty much just called any one with a SW chip a fool. Not nice Loren. Why don't you sell your products on their "features, advantages, and benefits" and let us decide where to spend our money. That is what Steve does and I really enjoyed dealing with him and believe in his product. It made my car more enjoyable to drive. I don't like to rev the pi$$ out of it to make it go and now I don't. Great product at twice the price. Please try one and let EVERY ONE know if you don't like it or SHUT UP.
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Old 01-07-2004, 12:52 PM
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Posted this on another thread. Seems relevant to this one too.


But what about this from this thread http://forums.pelicanparts.com/show...908#post1086908 :

hi steve,
just got done with making some runs comparing stock car with stock chip vs.
yr chip. made 6-7 runs each on the same stretch of road. i chose to
compare horsepower only as 0-60 times is just too hard to replicate and i
don't want to abuse my clutch so much. the horsepower numbers were obtained
from wot in second gear till the rev limiter kicked in. i tried to control
the other variables as much as possible such as the amount of gas in the
tank (filled up b4 each set of runs), and external temp was within 3
degrees. the g-tech was set with the vehicle wt as 3000 pounds and kept
constant in its position and setting for each run. i eliminated the highest
and lowest runs from each set and obtained the following avg horsepower:
stock chip: 174.75 your chip: 188.25! and as i said before, not only
does it show better numbers, it makes the car so much more lively and fun to
drive throughout the rpm range which is what really counts for me. it's
idling a bit higher but is very smooth, no hunting and no pinging that i can
tell so far. the fabspeed premuffler is going on later and i'll make more
runs in the next two days when i can get the external temp to cooperate.
btw, please feel free to share any of this info with anyone. take care,
mike


Other than the chip, what could have made the g-tech "feel" the increase in hp?

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Old 01-07-2004, 01:05 PM
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