Better Oil Filters

DG624 · 03-03-2004, 03:02 PM

I was trying to reduce maintenance and was interested in a reusesable oil filter. I am also interested inreducing engine wear caued by microscopic (2-20 micron) particles abrading the engine. I was searching for alternatives and discovered several but only two companies seemed to sell a direct replacement spin on filter that filters down to 2-10 micons.

Trask offers a spin-on type with flutted case that has an internal by pass filter that goes down to 1/10 micron. $ 80 and no oil lines

Vortex has a uniuqe design that goes down to 2 microns with or around 10 with out the by pass. Very interesting design.

Has anyone tried these or any others and if not why not?

DG624 · 03-03-2004, 03:05 PM

I also saw this article on contamination and wear on the NORIA site. Very technical but is interesting. If most wear occurs at the contact boundary between moving parts and the clearances are 2-20 microns then the 2-20 micron particles are the worst problem. Most paper filter filter down to 20-40 microns.

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=401&relatedbookgroup=PowerGen

becky'sdroptop · 03:46 PM

Haven't kept up with them for a while but Oberg makes a reusable screen filter that goes pretty small on particle filtration. I believe they are even selling them through Jeg's or Summit catalogs.

http://www.guardexlubes.com/filters.html

Bill Douglas · 03-03-2004, 04:03 PM

Our cars have a pretty big flow rate and if the oil can't squeek through the extra fine filters in time, it may go unfiltered through the bypass.

becky'sdroptop · 03-04-2004, 04:03 AM

This might be a good application for a bypass filter setup - one that does not filter the full flow, just a portion of the full flow. The theory is that eventually all of the oil will pass through the bypass filter and its finer filtration without disrupting the full pressure flow.

There is alot of discussion on some of the diesel truck boards about these systems, especially since you can run diesel change intervals out to 7500 miles or more if you really want to.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Here's an earlier discussion on the subject.... Has anyone used this method of Oil Filtration?

Rot 911 · 03-04-2004, 05:11 AM

But is it really necessary? My '86 engine which I rebuilt only because I had worn valve guides looked virtually new on the inside wear surfaces.

Geary · 03-04-2004, 07:34 AM

I haven't read the article, but I think it's pretty widely accepted that it's particles in the 100+ micron range that we're most worried about. Oberg and System 1 only filter down to 50 micron, but they are absolutely full-flow, whereas ALL the standard paper element filters by-pass a huge amount of oil all the time. Most paper filters are an absolute joke. No -- ALL paper filters are a joke, when compared to what else is available.

Oil filtration is moving toward the use of magnetic devices to capture all ferrous particles, even those down to .07 micron. Lola is one of the car companies that relies solely on the "Magnom" magnetic filter for some of their race cars. These filters are totally non-restrictive, in that you can't measure any pressure drop after placing them in-line. (Paper filters usually drop the pressure 5-6 pounds, and the System 1 about 1 pound.)

DG624 · 07:42 AM

I am considering replacing valve guides and want to keep dirt out of the engine. I have experience with Obreg on a VW engine that had over 165,000 miles and still burned hardly any oil. I used synthetic oil and could go 40-50,000 between changes, I just cleaned the screen when the indicator light came on.

I talked with the Vortex Filter people and they seem to have the best combination of by-pass and fine screen filtration (spin-on filter replacement). This filter swirls the oil as it enters and pushes it to the side filter element. The center cloth filters to 2 microns but only part of the oil goes to the center to allow for more flow (5 gallons per minute). They say that they have had diesel engines that have stopped changing oil but just change the filter. I have no intention of not changing oil but would like to extend my chnges to reduce the maintenance.

The information about the particles that do damage seems to indicate that the 2-20 micron rocks are not filtered and grind between bearing surfaces. Also I talked with a Amsoil representative and he felt that most synthetics are thrown away too soon just because of dirt. The oil still has it full lubrucating properties.

Here is the Vortex Filter Site:
http://www.vortexfilter.com/sitepages/pid42.php

Randy Webb · 03-04-2004, 08:35 AM

Why worry about this? The engines ran for 200,000 or more miles on the old oil of the 1970's and 80's -- they should run even farther now days. What is the real problem that one is trying to "fix"?

DG624 · 03-04-2004, 08:44 AM

Randy,

I am trying to extend oil drain intervals and reduce maintenance. I also don't like to throw away filters. If I change oil every year then I also save money. Why throw away good oil?

banjomike · banjomike's Garage

Contaminants are not the only reason for a short oil change interval. Though your oil temperature guage may only read 200 deg 90% of the time, there are places in these aircooled (really oil cooled) engines that get a good deal hotter than that. The high temperatures cause viscosity breakdown and other problems.

I bet there is not one Porsche mechanic that would recommend increased oil change intervals as a way to save money. The best way to save money on oil changes is to DIY.

Randy Webb · 03-04-2004, 10:20 AM

Mike, it sounds like his concerns are (his) labor and ecological issues re oil disposal.

The main thing I would do to extend intervals is to use a synthetic. Be sure to recycle the oil. I think synthetics are supposed to be changed yearly no matter how many miles. re ecological issues, I would campaign for an issue politically, by donations, etc. That will be much more effective.

RickM · RickM's Garage

I'm with Mike on this. However, synthetic oils contain additive packages that breakdown and are consumed as well. In fact Mobil recommends that the change interval with Mobil 1 not be extended...Hmmm, maybe I'll look for other proponets of that advice. Kinda self serving isn't it.

I do believe Redline used to advertise that their synthetic product could go for 100k miles with only a filter change and top off to replenish the additives. Wonder why I don't see this pushed any longer.

DG624 · 03-04-2004, 12:09 PM

I talked to several "experts" on oil and they thought that most oil remains intact but is thrown away because of contamination. Not all oil is the same but most synthetic type oil should last for beyond the one year limit, if it is not cooked above 400F. Most oil manufactures want to sell oil and don't want to be blamed for possible problems. I am not going to try to set any records but I would really like to reduce the oil changes. The NORIA site has a lot of details. A decent filter should be good engine insurance.

DG624 · 03-04-2004, 01:26 PM

I went to GRMotorsports and found this article. Somewhat counter intutive. The longer you use oil the less wear up to a point, and the last paragraph that with proper filtration and replenishment the need to change oil is eliminated.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

47silver · 47silver's Garage

Hi
I would check out the pressure drop with a finer filter as it could end up starving one of the pumps.

gary

1fastredsc · 03-04-2004, 03:29 PM

You could do the 993/964 oil filter conversion where the car's internal oil cooler is replaced with a filter fitting that's sized for 951 oil filters. It filters all the oil going through the motor, as opposed to the oil going through the oil tank.

DG624 · 03-04-2004, 04:05 PM

I am going to look into the Vortex Filter. I talked to the company and they said there would be no pressure drop since the all oil is not filtered by the fine filter but only 10%. The other filter is 10 microns I think. This is a spin on type with the same demensions as the Mahle.