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Quote:
Originally posted by stone43
OK, I will bite, what does that cost to fix?
I recently had a top end done and my wrench quoted me $3500 plus the cost of any valves, if they needed replacing (all 12 did). I ended up also replacing a clutch and installing carerra tensioners so my actual cost was higher. FWIW I also looked at doing the work my self. The cost of parts and machine work was $1,500-2,000.

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Old 01-06-2004, 11:15 AM
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I think the white smoke is condensation burning off. Not a worry.
Old 01-06-2004, 12:07 PM
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OK, perhaps parting it out was a bit extreme. But these things are definitely worth more in pieces than as a whole!

I really "like" the car, just don't "love" it like some guys on this board do.

If I manage to dodge this bullet, I am going on a search for a newer cab.
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Old 01-06-2004, 12:37 PM
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OK, got the call. They could not get it to smoke. No obvious damage, but as we all know, these things hide problems rather well. Valves showed no obvious signs. They just told me to keep an oil consumption log.

Of course I know as soon as I bring it home, the damn thing will start doing it again.

I think I am going on the prowl for a newer one. Anyone know any good divorce lawyers?
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Old 01-06-2004, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by stone43
OK, got the call. They could not get it to smoke. No obvious damage, but as we all know, these things hide problems rather well. Valves showed no obvious signs. They just told me to keep an oil consumption log.

Of course I know as soon as I bring it home, the damn thing will start doing it again.

I think I am going on the prowl for a newer one. Anyone know any good divorce lawyers?
I would follow their advce and not worry so much. Before I did my top end, my oil consumption was 2-300 miles/quart. On discussion with my wrench, he told me that as long as I kept the temperatures sane and kept the level up, I would be ok.

When I finally told him it was time (I had offered him the job three times previously and he politely told me I should wait), his only question was: "Are you sure? You can still wait if you want."
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Old 01-06-2004, 05:16 PM
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Thanks Harry, that is reassuring.
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Old 01-06-2004, 06:39 PM
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That sounds like good advice Harry. My Carrera is sure running great, so as I stated, I am going to wait a couple years before I spring for a new top end unless something changes.

Mike
Old 01-06-2004, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MOMO3.2
That sounds like good advice Harry. My Carrera is sure running great, so as I stated, I am going to wait a couple years before I spring for a new top end unless something changes.

Mike
Keep an eye on your oil consumption.
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Old 01-06-2004, 06:49 PM
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Guys....How bout a worn out cat? I had similiar occational puffs of smoke at low speeds..(w/ the horrible rotten egg smell of course)..and after replacing Cat, no smell, no smoke...

Could this guys problems all be from running rich/fowled O2/bad CAT?

(would be much cheaper to fix
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Old 01-06-2004, 07:40 PM
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The smoke I was experiencing was mainly at idle, while the car was not warmed up. I did not smell rotten eggs.

Oil is cheap. I guess I will just monitor it more closely and if I start seeing smoke after the car is hot, then I know I am truly focked.
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Old 01-06-2004, 08:02 PM
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I had a problem this year that sounds similiar. I started seeing puffs of blue smoke when starting. The smoke would only last one or two seconds. There were no other unusual noises or oil consumption. The problem was a cracked air box. Had it replaced, problem is gone.
Old 01-06-2004, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HarryD
I would follow their advce and not worry so much. Before I did my top end, my oil consumption was 2-300 miles/quart. On discussion with my wrench, he told me that as long as I kept the temperatures sane and kept the level up, I would be ok.
I think unless your mechanic did a compression and leakdown test that this is very poor advice based on my own experiences. Like I said previously my '86 3.2 was running great and had no indications that there was a problem except for excessive oil consumption with no smoking. I ran it hard and never thought twice about jumping into it and driving a 1000 miles and then running it hard again. It was only a leakdown test that indicated I might have some serious problems. And the only reason I even did the leakdown was because I had just purchased the tester for future use and wanted to try it out. Look at that picture of my #5 exhaust valve posted earlier in this thread. How much longer do you think I could have kept driving before a piece of that valve broke off? And because I didn't address the valve guide/oil consumption problem earlier I ended up having to rebuild all 6 heads! I'm not saying the sky is falling, all I am saying is before relying on anecdotal advice, do some relatively cheap testing!
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Old 01-07-2004, 05:36 AM
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I burn a quart of oil 'bout every 4k or so...300 miles for a quart is a lot!
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Old 01-07-2004, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurt V
I think unless your mechanic did a compression and leakdown test that this is very poor advice based on my own experiences. Like I said previously my '86 3.2 was running great and had no indications that there was a problem except for excessive oil consumption with no smoking. I ran it hard and never thought twice about jumping into it and driving a 1000 miles and then running it hard again. It was only a leakdown test that indicated I might have some serious problems. And the only reason I even did the leakdown was because I had just purchased the tester for future use and wanted to try it out. Look at that picture of my #5 exhaust valve posted earlier in this thread. How much longer do you think I could have kept driving before a piece of that valve broke off? And because I didn't address the valve guide/oil consumption problem earlier I ended up having to rebuild all 6 heads! I'm not saying the sky is falling, all I am saying is before relying on anecdotal advice, do some relatively cheap testing!
Kurt,

This is a very good point you make. I guess I did not tell the "whole story". Like you noted, I think we each need to do some testing and decide what our risk tolerance is to decide how to proceed.

I did have compression and leak down data, that was in the range of showing some concerns but nothing too excessive. Also, we saw copious smoke on decelleration only, pointed clearly to worn guides. When I first got the car, oil consumption was at 3-400 miles/quart. Just before the top end, it had fallen to 2-300 miles/quart.

On tear down, the stems were worn but the valves themselves were ok. If I had rebuilt sooner, I may have saved the cost of the valves but then again, who knows!
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Old 01-07-2004, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SRISER
I burn a quart of oil 'bout every 4k or so...300 miles for a quart is a lot!
Yeah, but at 2-300 miles/quart, you keep the bugs and tailgaters away!!

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Last edited by HarryD; 01-07-2004 at 06:15 AM..
Old 01-07-2004, 06:12 AM
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stone43:

A leakdown and compression test were performed on my car at 134,000 miles. Both were well within the "normal limits". So, I am pretty certain my car is still good at 149,000. Nothing has changed since then as far as oil consumption, performance, or smoking.

Kurt V makes a good point based on his experience. You may want to have a leakdown & compression test performed. That should give you a solid indication of where things are.

Good luck!

Mike
Old 01-07-2004, 06:44 AM
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For those that are curious, here is my posting back in October showing my leakdown and compression numbers:

"My 3.2 has 133,000 miles and is burning about 1 qt of oil every 400-500 miles although I never see any smoke come out of the exhaust even when I try the decelleration test for valve guide wear. Today I did a compression and leak down test after I drove the car. Here are the results:

#1: Compression 145, leakdown 80%
#2: Compression 180, leakdown 8%
#3: Compression 180, leakdown 6%
#4: Compression 190, leakdown 2%
#5: Compression 60, leakdown 100%
#6: Compression 205, leakdown 8%

As you can see I have some real problems with cylinders 1 and 5. However #1 sparkplug is clean, but #5 sparkplug is oil covered. I drove the car again and retested with the same results. On the leakdown I could hear air escaping into the exhaust system on both 1 and 5. I squirted oil in cylinder 5 and there was no increase in compression. I am hoping there is a possiblilty that the exhaust valves on 1 and 5 are adjusted too tight and my plan is to pull the lower valve covers on both sides and adjust 1 and 5 exhaust valves. Any opinions or suggestions out there?"
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Old 01-07-2004, 06:48 AM
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Old 01-07-2004, 06:57 AM
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I have an 86 Carrera that had 140K on it. Every other day at start up it would puff white smoke then go away. At the next couple of lights there was a 50% chance it would smoke a lot of white smoke at idle. My Wrench did a compression check and one cylinder was at 150. It burned 1 qt every 300-400 miles. I finally just got too embarrassed smoking at lights. I did a top end refresh at the tune of $5700 with a few other parts replaced. When the engine was cracked open it was ONE bad exhaust valve guild and seal. There was about a 1/4 cup of oil in the 6th cylinder! All the cylinder walls were beautiful! I could have gone much longer before a top end but I'm very glad I did it. I took the cams to Elgin for C2 grind and have Dansk premuffler/1 in 2 out sport muffler. A Steve Wong Chip (Great chip and Great guy) with an open air box. My little 911 just RIPS now! I just walk way from cars with much more power than me. I'll Dyno soon and post. I drive the car everyday rain or shine and can't live without my baby! Best car I've ever had.
Old 01-07-2004, 08:14 AM
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Guys,

You all make some great points. Now I am confused a bit since the responses are all over the board. I have had the car 2 years, only put about 9K miles on it. When I had the PPI two years ago, I had 165 almost across the board compression, +/- 3%.

I truly rely on these guys at Black Forest--they usually do not hesitate to tell me when something is wrong. But they don't seem too worried.

And when I say Burn 1 Qt. every 300-500 miles, I should qualify that better. I should say burn, drip, drip/burn and generally leak. I have a permanent spot on my garage floor where all of the little drips have finally united and formed one big happy spot.

So I am torn. I have to leave the car there one more day anyways, so perhaps more testing is in order?

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Old 01-07-2004, 08:46 AM
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