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I told you it wasn't a troll. zeesh

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Old 01-28-2004, 10:55 PM
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If a troll is a troll, then what is a "droll" troll?
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Old 01-28-2004, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 993.986.
thanks for the explanation. I had it all wrong, I was guessing it had something to do with 914's
914's are small Porsches usually driven by gnomes, not trolls...

So based on your initial research...which way are you leaning? Early 911? Mid-year? SC or Carrera?
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Last edited by chuckw951; 01-31-2004 at 06:18 AM..
Old 01-29-2004, 07:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
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I still want to try find a decent early 911, I really like the clean "no console just a shifter" look. A 2.4 would be my choice and Im still undecided but wary of an original 2.7. I'm really afraid to get a project car so if I can't find a half decent running example I'd probably try for an 84-89 Carrera.
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Old 01-29-2004, 11:54 AM
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OK, I finally will stick in my 2c.

In the mid ‘70s to early ‘80s we built several dozen wonderful hotrods on 2.4s. If T most got 40IDA carburetors (cost), E&S retained MFI. They were mostly 92 Mahle RSR, 10.3:1, turbo fan, front cooler, 22&28, Porsche Factory RSR Bilstein struts & shocks, stock sway bars, and slightly lower.
No plastic bushings (noisy and ride rough.)
No outward signs (Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing.)
At 2.8 L and high compression these are screamers. They mostly still run on pump premium on the street but 110 on the track. If twin plug had been reasonably available back then, all would have had it and the CR would have been 10.8:1. All of these should be upgraded to twin plug.
Some of these are currently running PCA and are Pelicans.

So, what do I recommend for an early 911?

A ’69-’73 LWB chassis, all the current upgrades, light weight (particularly in the rear), SC rear flares, pretty much the same suspension as 20 years ago – just new, and an engine. My personal preference would be MFI 2.8 11.3:1 E or S on a 7R case, twin plug, that looks exactly like an original 2.4T. So what if I spend $4/gal for race fuel. There are lots of engine choices SC and later – just heavier.
Speaking of weight, I would remove the sound deadening in spite of the increased noise. The ’69-71S had an Aluminum deck lid and license panel. All that stuff, including quarter bumpers/bumpers, is now available in CF. I would get everything behind the doors as outrageously light as possible while still maintaining stock appearance.


The Theory of 911 Hotrod.

There are three kinds of cars (all 911s):
Street Cars – basically as Porsche delivered them, with improvements.
Café Racers – look cool, go faster, Pelican hot rods. The extreme are non-drivable show cars.
Race Cars – Built on a 911 platform but with no consideration for street use (911R to GT3-RSR).

Thanks to Porsche, all are suitable for the track. All the Street Cars and, hopefully, most of the Café Racers are street legal. None of the Race Cars are street legal (unless you really push it – that’s another story.)

Envision an overlapping 3-circle Venn diagram: Street – Café – Race. The really great news is that Porsche 911 is mostly in the center of the three overlaps.

My question to everyone is:
How far toward Café and/or Race are you willing to go and still be Street?

Best,
Grady
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:13 PM
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Grady,
Thats a really nice summary!
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:54 PM
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Grady,
Thanks for your input. I am going to have to do some research to decode all of that (7R?, 92 Mahle?). What does "all the current upgrades" on the LWB chassis mean? (I understand the long wheel base part as opposed to the short wheelbase earlier cars)
And how much $$ are we talking about, to build one of those hot rods as described, to the nearest 5K? I'll be sitting when I read your reply.
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Old 01-29-2004, 07:46 PM
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Oh man Grady. Now you've gone and got me looking for more cash to fund the obsession.......

Ash
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Old 01-29-2004, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Webb
Hey Paul, is that the Snap-Off guy's car? I fergit his name...
Nope. Tom Wilkinson's orange car...air conditioning? Hoot! It doesn't even have a radio. Tom's R GRuppe number is 130. I hope it's not prophetic....And guys, I think you're catching on when it comes to where Grady is coming from. Ahhhh, for a time machine back to the 70's, a non sunroof '72T, and a suitcase full of cash. I'd dump all 3 in Gradys lap, and ask for a nice Cafe racer street rod...

Last edited by pwd72s; 01-29-2004 at 09:12 PM..
Old 01-29-2004, 09:05 PM
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I rather keep my A/C, heat and other creature comforts and let the turbo, large brakes, wide track and rubber make up for the weight difference.
Old 01-29-2004, 09:37 PM
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To each his own. BTW, Tom's car? The one I posted the pics of? Hidden inside those 15" wheels are Turbo brakes. Considering the weight difference, I suspect you wouldn't want to try to go as deep into the corner before putting on the brakes as he can...
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Last edited by pwd72s; 01-29-2004 at 09:50 PM..
Old 01-29-2004, 09:47 PM
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Grew up in Tampa. A hot rod or any car there must have two things: 1. oil pressure 2. A/C
Old 01-29-2004, 09:49 PM
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Grady's "Theory of 911 Hotrod"



Grady, we need to find the others. I wonder how many are still on the road?

Anyone else in Pelican/RGruppe land have a Grady hotrod?
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Old 01-30-2004, 03:28 AM
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Greg, that's a nice pic of a Grady hotrod, dressed for the street. Now show them a pic in its track dress!
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:17 AM
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Ohhhhh is that sweet. The ultimate sleeper! My 78SC is sort of a decendant of the Grady hotrod: backdated to all chrome trim/hardware, 15x7 & 8" rims, no tail or spoiler. Built 3.0L CIS motor (195 at the wheels), 27 torsions in the rear with Bilstein HDs. After having a "cafe" 911 that turned into a "race" 911 per the summary above, I have learned that track and street cars are mutually exclusive, so I am not willing to go very far towards "race" and still be "street". Then again, I still have daydreams about taking out all the sound deadener and the stereo, and replacing the roof and bumpers with cf- get the weight down to 2100 or so.........
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Old 01-30-2004, 09:16 AM
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Re: Grady's "Theory of 911 Hotrod"

Quote:
Originally posted by rs911t
Anyone else in Pelican/RGruppe land have a Grady hotrod?
Not sure I'm following you. Built by Grady? (as in the prior post "In the mid ‘70s to early ‘80s we built several dozen wonderful hotrods on 2.4s.") or do you mean a "sleeper" early 911 that follow the "philosophy."
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Old 01-30-2004, 09:21 AM
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Yes, a "In the mid ‘70s to early ‘80s we built several dozen wonderful hotrods on 2.4s" hot rod. The green 911 above is one of Grady's.
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Old 01-30-2004, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grady Clay
My question to everyone is:
How far toward Café and/or Race are you willing to go and still be Street?
Well, stripping out the interior is a no-brainer. Suspension work too - to a point. One wouldn't want their torsions and shocks too heavy on the street.

Engine work? I don't know if it's necessary in most cases. My jury is still out on that one.

BTW: the years you state: '69-'73 - are very subjective. In fact, aside from impact bumpers, galvanizing and interior luxury pieces, I think mid-year to late-SCs can be as light, if not lighter, than early cars.
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Last edited by dd74; 01-30-2004 at 10:06 AM..
Old 01-30-2004, 10:01 AM
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dd74,
Yes, I should have included the SCs.

Street, Café, and Race 911s are not necessarily mutually exclusive if you are willing to compromise.

Yes, a race car taken to the limits of the rules and deep pockets are usually not possible to put on the street. A 935K3 is not possible to drive on the street unless it is a street IMSA race. It isn’t even very good on the track unless you are at 10/10s. A GT3-RSR, as Factory delivered, is probably much more suitable for the street, although illegal in most places.

Yes, some Café Racers are not for daily use on the street and are not race cars but are great for turning heads.

Yes, most street 911s are suitable for everything, good driving, look cool, and are suitable for DE and some other track use.

This thread is about street “hotrods.” These are 911s that are still comfortable and useful daily street cars while also improved in their performance both on and off track.

This is not “How to Build a Race Car.”
This is not “How to Build the Coolest Café Racer.”

This is why there lots of different cars. A nice street 911 to drive regularly. A cool Café Racer to cruse the strip. A Race Car to take to POC/PCA and more. Of course you need a beater 4WD for the ice and snow and a Big Iron dually-crew cab turbo-diesel PU to tow your trailer.

Anyone lucky enough to go next week and pick up their new GT3 has the best of all worlds. A wonderful daily driver, will turn heads almost everywhere, and is a wonderful track car. That is what Porsche is all about and a regular 911 can fill the bill.

Best,
Grady
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by chuckw951
914's are small Porsches usually driven by gnomes, not trolls...
Well, at least you realize that 914s are Porsches.

And, just so you know, gnomes are magical

Old 01-30-2004, 02:18 PM
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