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Question new to 911 "hot rodding"

I am a new Pelican-er. I have owned two previous Porsches a '96 993 and a '99 986 (leased actually). I have always liked the slightly "raw" edge of the earlier 911's and I'm looking to get into an earlier 911 to keep and become a work-in-progress type of car. My question is: where does one obtain a Porsche motor? are there "crate motors" like GM does? how do you evaluate independent builders? is there a list of such things? I am capable of some mechanical work but certainly not building an engine. Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Old 01-26-2004, 09:01 PM
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This article should help. Alot.

http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/E1.html
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Old 01-26-2004, 09:07 PM
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If you wanna have a good hot rod and go fast just buy a old 930 and fix it up a bit.

That way you don't need to buy anything in a crate (though a few items in cardboard boxes can help a lot).
Old 01-26-2004, 09:10 PM
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You previously owned a 993...and I believe a 996....and now you want a "GO FAST" work in project car....Before the motor...U gotta think about the chassis. Try the BB2 threads...Do a search....Good luck!
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Last edited by MY83SC; 01-26-2004 at 09:14 PM..
Old 01-26-2004, 09:11 PM
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There is a guy named Harald who has supplied a few list members with complete 3.6 engines from Europe to transplant into older cars. Not exactly a brand new crate motor, but I think that's about as close as you get with Porsche engines. Username is Speedster94.
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Last edited by cowtown; 01-26-2004 at 09:29 PM..
Old 01-26-2004, 09:25 PM
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I love Jack's car and Tyson's and Kevin's work, but I don't think our new friend needs to go that far (not that I wouldn't, if I could).

Start with a 76 or 77 non sun roof car (galvanized and cheap), install a 3.6 and upgrade the brakes and suspension. Larger brakes per Doctor Bill V.'s recommendations and coil overs all around (maybe). Those are mostly bolt in parts and the car should be a beast!

For looks, there are lots of choices, but a back dated 76 or 77 with fiberglass bumpers front and rear (RS or RSR look are both cool...owner's taste) and maybe fiberglass fenders and hood. Rear flares will need to grow, but that not a big deal.

Light nimble and fast! Soon enough you'll be tracking the car...a turbo (with more potential power) may not be a great track car. (let the games begin HP Junkies!)

To answer your questions, the engines that are popular are not from a "crate" program as Chevy has. Most are from donor cars. A new aircooled 3.6 might be available from the fastory ($$$$), but you are better off getting a low mileage engine.

There are some very good builders out there, and you will pay for their services. A lot of guys here build their own engines, but if you are going to transplant, might as well get the Varioram 3.6 engine (see Steve Timmins..Embs..leave it alone).


Best advice...find some local P-car nuts that like to wrench and you will eventually form your own opinion of your dream 911...be careful you don't take everything your new P-car wrenching friends say as gospel..do your research here and in books...Buy Bruce Andersons book (pick and chose the useful info...but BA's books is a good history on aircooled 911 engines), Buy Wayne's Rebuild Book....

Go to a PCA Driver's Ed event (is there on in Iowa?) and get to know the people. Hell, come to the Chicago DE's...we'll send you home running for a helmet and a track worthy car West Des Moine is not that far...from Chicago

Last edited by MotoSook; 01-26-2004 at 09:52 PM..
Old 01-26-2004, 09:36 PM
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Souk, as always...Gives good advice
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Old 01-26-2004, 09:39 PM
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A 964/993 conversion is not a simple task for everyone. Avoid this as a source
for a fast 911 project. This effort could cost close to $10K for the engine conversion
alone. Futhermore, there're many U.S. sources for engines. Follow 350HP930's
advice, though.

Cowtown, I'm surprised YOU didn't mention MotorMeister as an engine source,
since you generally make wise purchase decisions, right.
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Old 01-26-2004, 09:41 PM
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Nice Loren.
Old 01-26-2004, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MY83SC
Souk, as always...Gives good advice
Ha! You have a lot to learn Mike.
Old 01-26-2004, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lorenfb
A 964/993 conversion is not a simple task for everyone. Avoid this as a source for a fast 911 project.
Sounds like he's looking for such a challenge...if not, well maybe he can build or have someone build for him a Monster 3.4 liter 10:1+ CR, carbed, SSI'd, twin-plugged monster that will make just as much power as a stock 3.6. Then he won't have to tackle the electronics and costom fitting of the engine, exhaust, etc...

I think one of the Steve's here has a 3.4 built by Steve at Rennsport that makes serious power...

Even a well built 3.0 in a lightened car can be more than enough for the street (HP junkies exclude... )

Edit: Wait! IS THIS A TROLL?????????
Old 01-26-2004, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Monster 3.4 liter 10:1+ CR, carbed, SSI'd, twin-plugged monster that will make just as much power as a stock 3.6.
10:1 you need race gas
lets face it carbs suck, the only people running carbs is nascar, you cant go in the mountains have to rejet to move to a different altitude,
you may come close to power, but you will still be lacking in torque
why ssi's? when you can have headers, makes no since

last thing why by a varioram motor? a head gasket 3.6 motor will do fine, im not saying its bad but the several thousand dollar up grade i dont think is worth it,
by the time you get done you have more in a carb motor that idles badly and is nervous, I have never had a 3.0 or a 2.7 run as smooth as a 3.6, the 3.2 is smooth but not like the 3.6
the 3.4 sounds like a nice race car piece,
Souk im not saying your wrong, but you are talking about one expensive motor, Kevin
Old 01-26-2004, 10:45 PM
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Kevin, I was looking at it from a 3.6 transplant to a pre-3.6 transplant. That is, if a 3.6 transplant is out of one's skill or challenge acceptance, a 930 case based motor will be a bit easier. Yes, a 3.4 would be pricey, but so would a 3.6 transplant.

I happen to know of a twin-plugged 10:1 3.0 with carbs that runs premium gas (not race fuel), and the little bugger does fairly well against much bigger cars..try 600HP...around a track (damn! I hope it is 10:1, not 9.5:1...and I can sense the head get larger..you know who you are ).

Sounds like our new friend may want heat...so SSI's or early headers should be considered.
It also doesn't sound like our new friend is as poor as I am...so an expensive motor he wishes...an expensive motor he may get .

It's just dreaming you see?

A good formula would be light as you can and a 930 case based engine.

He doesn't have to have 250+ HP to make a fun car, but if he can afford it..then let us dream him up a beast.

I haven't driven a 3.6 so I'm speaking out the wrong end, but does one really have to have a 3.6?

I still think this is a troll...and if not sorry dude...you're stuck with 986...unless you change it
Old 01-26-2004, 11:02 PM
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How much and what kind of hot rodding do you want to do? Track work? Street work? Bling-bling work?
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Old 01-27-2004, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lorenfb
A 964/993 conversion is not a simple task for everyone. Avoid this as a source
for a fast 911 project. This effort could cost close to $10K for the engine conversion
alone. Futhermore, there're many U.S. sources for engines. Follow 350HP930's
advice, though.

Cowtown, I'm surprised YOU didn't mention MotorMeister as an engine source,
since you generally make wise purchase decisions, right.
I can't believe you didn't mention the Cool Collar in order to go REALLY fast!!
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Old 01-27-2004, 12:28 AM
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First order of business is to join GruppeB. Go here: www.gruppeb.org
We can help....Seriously.
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Old 01-27-2004, 03:52 AM
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The answer to 993.986's question is largely dependent on personal preference and budget. First question would probably be which body is the most appealing: early 911, 75-77 or 78-89. Then there's the question about the motor and that goes to one budget. There are so many possibilities...

If I had to do it again I would have gone with a 72 or 73 911 as that car comes with the 915 transmission and the wiring would make a swap much easier. I also would have selected a 3.2 with electronic fuel injection. (A 3.6 would be nice, but out of my budget for Porsche related purchases!)

A '73.5 911T with CIS would be a great candidate to drop in a 78-83 3.0 CIS motor...seems like that would be a simple hot rod project.

Seems like a 75-77 with a SC or 3.2 motor swap wouldn't be too complicated.

I like the idea of a 78-83 car with a 3.2 or 3.6 motor and many of these conversions have been done.

Then there's the idea of building a hot rod motor for your car. Sky's the limit there too. What displacement? MFI, carbs or EFI, which compression, which cams, twin plug? etc. etc.

With any used 911 motor you buy you need to be careful and buy from a reputable seller preferably with good test number (compression, leakdown), history and possibly a guarantee. The SC motors are at least 30 years old and the 3.2 motors are just a bit younger.

Or you could just buy a 911 turbo and crank up the boost and be done with it. Nobody will be able to catch you!
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Old 01-27-2004, 03:55 AM
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agree with Souk, TROLL
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Old 01-27-2004, 04:24 AM
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Troll? Maybe, but I get a slightly different vibe here. A Boxster is a 986 and a popular lease vehicle.

If he's serious, take your time, read up on the different years (early, mid, Carrera). You've already had the newer stuff. Find someone local that can show off their car to you. Just ask, we love to do it.
Old 01-27-2004, 07:02 AM
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Here's the car you want... Sad days, fire sale likely

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Old 01-27-2004, 08:15 AM
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